New victory points thresholds

[dragakots]

X

[BradTSS]

Hi Dragakots,

It was so I could have a better chance in our current campaign game...haha.

In seriousness, our producers took a look at the data from over 20,000 games played so far and made adjustments. The goal was to make games competitive as either faction.

We in the studio really value great balance and will keep an eye on it as we go forward.

Thanks,
Brad

[s_ron42na]

Will this affect existing games, or only newly started games?

[BradTSS]

Yes, it will affect all current games and future games.

We felt this was better than making all current games incompatible (which was the other option).

[John of Mars]

I would love to see a developer blog on this change. I have no problem with the adjustments, but the data nerd in me would love to see the breakdowns in Win/Loss & VPs, and how you made the decision.

P.S. the new app icon is rad.

[Tigre]

Strange i would have said that soviets where stronger, played in certain way ... Playing soviet is harder also, because mistake is fatal in the earlier turns .. But in the long run, i vote now soviet

[juan Raigada]

Yeah, I also thought Axis was harder to play. It seems to me now a VP victory on the campaign is highly unlikely. Moscow or nothing.

The data used by the producers... Was it weighted towards high ELO players or processed raw? Bad Soviet play can make the Axis super strong (and I would think new players have a better grasp of the Axis than of the Soviets), but against a decent Soviet player, the new VP threshold is really hard to reach...

Or maybe I´m very wrong and Axis dominated like crazy high ELO matches... But I would love to see how and why this was done. For me it was already easier to play the Soviets and this makes playing Axis a chore.

[BradTSS]

Hi Everyone,

We used data from all online games to make the decision.
As I said above, we felt like this was the best decision to create compelling games for players on both sides. We will of course keep an eye on how things progress and make further adjustments if needed.

Thanks,
Brad

[s_ron42na]

I also thought the Russians were easier to play, but I'm also just learning the game. It would be interesting to see some detailed stats from the 20,000+ games played so far.

By the way, great game! I liked BotB as well, but I like DoM more - it's a bit larger in scope which allows for more varied strategies. It's also great to hear there have already been 20k+ games played - seems like you have another hit game.

[s_nkarp]

What we found was that, as Axis players became better, it is quite hard for the Soviet's to avoid losing one or more +1 VP spaces (beyond Bryansk). Keeping forces concentrated, prioritizing objectives, etc. I suspect that we'll eventually bump the campaign up a bit further, but the ranges in the last update reflect actual play in the wild. I tuned it to give each side roughly 45% wins, with 10% drawing.

Apologies to people nearing the end of a campaign, thinking they were way ahead, only to find the goalposts shifted: but better to get the correction in sooner rather than later!

[dragakots]

X

[thedudeabidez]

Well, I hadn't updated yet and it sure was a shock to see the game end with my Axis at 36 points and seeing the "Draw" come up.

Admittedly, I had a slow start, but I held Voronezh, Kursk, Tula, Rzhev, Kalinin, Bryansk, Kaluga, Orel, and even Vladimir at game end. The only city I didn't control was Moscow. So I have a feeling Axis wins are going to be tough. My intial feeling is that this will drive players to go more all-out early on, because the odds of a mid-late game win lessen considerably.

[OWAC1st]

^You could easily have been down another 9 vp for Rzhev and its 3 infantry which miraculously survived with 1 pip each and refused to retreat, however I agree that the new vp thresholds put tremendous pressure on the German side. You did everything short of taking Moscow (and nearly did that too), and held the +1 vp cities for much of the game. It still wasn't enough. On the other hand, your troops paid a dreadful price those last few turns. I wonder if we will see a further adjustment in the future, once these new levels are well tested.

DOM isn't quite as asymmetrical as Bulge, but it is still a very different experience depending on the nationality played. Playing a matched set of games, once as each side, is still the most equitable competitive test. Fortunately, varying the VP thresholds is no hindrance.

[Diogenes]

Assuming competent play on both sides, the Axis still nets 15 VPs from Bryansk alone if he makes that a focus. That means an Axis player can guarantee a draw at worst under the old thresholds. I played for Moscow 100% before in order to make it fair and still won every single Axis game.

The new 42 point threshold may be too high though. It basically forces the Axis player to snag multiple +1 sites without overextending himself so that he loses too many units in the snow drifts. I imagine you'll see the axis victory threshold scale back some, while the Soviet threshold moves little.