The Editor needs radical simplification

[Odenathus]

If this game is going to succeed as it deserves, the Editor will need to be made more accessible to players who don't understand coding. By now there should be a dozen new user-created, finished scenarios to try.

It's clear from the Forum and other reviews that this game has attracted plenty of interest, and equally clear that even keen players with experience of other editors are finding it very difficult to get to grips with this one.

At the very least:

all functions should be available from the basic Editor, with no need to edit text strings to produce a good scenario
all units should be available from the basic Editor
units' names (and possibly characteristics) should be accessible for changing in the basic Editor
testing and posting new scenarios should be possible without having to access a URL

I hope I'm wrong, but if players can't design and add new scenarios everyone will play the historical ones a few times, then get tired of playing Skirmish mode, and...er...that's that, back to FoG.

I've spent hours trying to design a simple scenario, I've read all the previous exchanges on the design forum, and I'm on the verge of giving up. It's such a pity as this is the only good Pike and Shot/Renaissance tactical PC game on the market, looks good, great AI, wide range of units and terrain, but in order to GROW it needs a flow of new scenarios - there's a wealth of possible battles, and players interested enough to spend time researching and designing them, provided that they can do it without having to wrestle with the underlying text strings.

I appreciate that it must be difficult to see criticism like this and, if you're the designer who's completely familiar with the mechanics you may wonder what I'm moaning about, but I wouldn't bother writing this if I didn't believe it.

Is it even possible without rewriting the whole underlying structure (which is clearly impractical)?

[rbodleyscott]

We are looking to do what we can to simplify scenario creation, but we are constrained by the facilities offered by the current version of the engine.

We are working on it.

Having said that, as they don't need AI, it is already quite simple to design MP scenarios in the editor without any scripting or text editing. The current version of the game will use the standard victory conditions if there is no scenario script (40% and 25% more, or 60%), but won't display those victory conditions on the screen.

The next update will display the victory conditions on the screen for scriptless scenarios, and by default will use adjusted victory conditions for MP games. (Allowing for initial disparity of forces).

[fogman]

1)hot seat game is essential. right now if i want to test a game, i have to do a mp game challenge to myself, and when i pick it up, everytime i have to watch the replay of my own playing that cannot be turned off. i can't really justify using my free time in that way.

2) a baggage and/or marker unit for accessory counters.

3) ability to quickly change unit attributes like in FoG.

that's the only way to create a realistic scenario that actually can play out like the real thing, and to encourage people to add value to the game.

[parmenio]

Maybe I can help - I rely on Scenario Designers to extend my enjoyment of a game.
For The Operational Art of War, I produced a number of utilities for designers to use.

I'm a programmer by background - 30+ years man and boy. I've just finished a utility to reverse historical scenarios so that can be played from the other side.
I'm just starting the AI scripting which as it's a programming task I can cope with it.

If you let me know what files you're having to hand-edit and what you're wanting to do with them, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that I can produce something useful.

[Odenathus]

1)hot seat game is essential. right now if i want to test a game, i have to do a mp game challenge to myself, and when i pick it up, everytime i have to watch the replay of my own playing that cannot be turned off. i can't really justify using my free time in that way.

2) a baggage and/or marker unit for accessory counters.

3) ability to quickly change unit attributes like in FoG.

that's the only way to create a realistic scenario that actually can play out like the real thing, and to encourage people to add value to the game.

Are you the player with whom we had the discussions about persuading Slitherine to add Renaissance style figures to the FoG engine so that we could use them? Imagine if it were possible to combine the appearance, AI, and range of figures from P&S with the editorial ease of FoG - now that would have been a real winner.

You're lucky to be at the testing stage, I'm still faffing around with field overlays, etc. If the baggage train is immobile, couldn't you use the Camp icon - that doesn't look too out of place, although there's no wagons?

[fogman]

wasn't me. i'm happy with FoG for early 16th century warfare. even moncontour 1569 looks good enough for me. I only need three new figures: reiter, musketeers, pike and musketeers combined.

my biggest problem with this game is that the engine is unsuitable for what i want to do. too many light troops for early renaissance and i don't use independent light troops and the crazy firing in this game drives me nuts. but if i could easily change the attributes so i can swich the weapons to something of limited range (max 2) and prevent troops from being disrupted from shooting except at point blank range, i'd be happy. because it is impossible right now to reproduce any battle according to historical lines, and if you're seen my FoG scenarios, they're based on historical flow.

[fogman]

Maybe I can help - I rely on Scenario Designers to extend my enjoyment of a game.
For The Operational Art of War, I produced a number of utilities for designers to use.

I'm a programmer by background - 30+ years man and boy. I've just finished a utility to reverse historical scenarios so that can be played from the other side.
I'm just starting the AI scripting which as it's a programming task I can cope with it.

If you let me know what files you're having to hand-edit and what you're wanting to do with them, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that I can produce something useful.

i don't remember but if you read the thread "i need to understand these things to make a scenario", the needs are there. Number 1 need is the ability to specify victory conditions. ( routing % for each side)