Balance suggestions

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Bersercker
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
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Balance suggestions

Post by Bersercker »

I noticed there aren't many of these on this forum, which is surprising. :) Here goes:
Preface: xD

So, played like 20 games so far, about 10 of them with the same (good) player.

Our "metagame" evolved like this:
1st game: I made some stompas, some dreds some heavy tanks, and lots of different infantry, he made a ton of baneblades shadowswords etc, with some firedrakes. I won in the end cause he didn't have enough infantry and his tanks died to bustas, all my vehicles died too but i had more req in the end.
2nd game: I did pretty much the same, but with less vehicles, he made a ton of firedrakes and some shadowswords. I lost heavly because firedrakes are just insanely powerful, all my vehicles ofc died to even a low number of shadowswrods.
3rd game: I made a few vehicles, made some boyz with big shootas to cover my inf from firedrakes, some lootaz which seemed to have good armor penetration, some bustas and many mega armored nobz. He did the same. I lost heavily again.
...
n game: I made a ton of mega armored nobz with some bustas, warbosses and ghazkull, no vehicles except for scouts, he made a ton of sanguinary guard and firedrakes and few shadowswords just in case. After i lost all my stuff and he started assaulting my starting victory points, i spamed shoota boyz every turn since i had lots of req left. Barely won on last turn because he was pushing too hard and all his squads were on red morale most of the time, while i kept spamming shootas until he had no req left to keep up the assault. (If he would have gotten a few command squads and rested his units, or got some mortars\heavy bolters i would have lost for sure).

So my suggestions are pretty obvious:

1. Nerf firedrakes. They completely outclass all imperium infantry except sanguinary guards, are pretty cheap and their armor makes them not care much about small arms fire, while they annihilate melee squads before they can strike. I suggest making them cost like 700-800, reducing their strength to 15, and probably reducing their armor or attack. With less attack(or accuracy) they could be countered by ork dreds, with less armor - by big shootas, lootaz etc. Currently shootas somewhat work only because they have more armor penetration than big shootas for some reason and cost only 95 req.

2. Nerf sanguinary guard. If you spam 15-20 of these guys they just oneshot 15-20 of any ork unit on first attack and its pretty much gg. I think nerfing their armor so that they become more susceptible to support fire from big shootas might do the trick, along with rising their cost to 700-800-900.

3. Not completely sure, but i think mega armored nobz could use a price increase as well, they are kinda too effective for 250 req. compared to other ork infantry. 300 or 350 would be better imo.

4. Rise armor and\or health on all titans, stompas and gargants, and decrease their price. They were ok in campaign where ai was afraid of attacking them but in multiplayer they die too fast and cost too much. Say, gargant is definetly not much stronger than a skullhama in health and damage department, cant be reinforced and moves slower, so why does it cost twice as much? 30 armor doesn't make much difference against Imperium's antitank weapons. Decreasing their cost by about 30%-50% might do the trick.

5. Leman russes. I often oneshot full strength leman russ squads with stormboyz out of the fog of war, even shoota boyz usually kill 2-3, which imo shouldn't be happening (also firedrakes having the same or better armor than most leman russes while costing less doesn't feel right). I guess raising all their armor by 10-15-20 might be sufficient?

6. On ork guntraks, gunwagons, grot tanks etc: I guess they should be flimsy, but their damage output is just laughable compared to, say, shoota squad, while they cost 4-5 times as much requsition. They die much faster too due to low armor and strength. Maybe raising their accuracy to 80 or 100 might work? Or, divide their price by two or three, they have range advantage over shootas at least(though not over mega armored nobz). (Was pretty funny when my full strength gunwagon squad did 1 damage to imperial guardsmen at point blank range)

Guess thats all for now. Sorry for the wall of text, hope somebody reads it. :)

Also, i encourage fellow forum dwellers to make their suggestions as well. :wink:
Kerensky
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Re: Balance suggestions

Post by Kerensky »

Interesting feedback, thanks for the write up!

I'll see what we can't do about some of these items in the future, along with the other changes we had in mind.

Ork Mega Armored Nobz is definitely going up in price though. :P
Firedrakes was discussed in detail in a thread around here too!
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=235&t=54972
Hzhto
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
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Re: Balance suggestions

Post by Hzhto »

Have to agree with TS that ork vehicles are almost useless for their price. In multiplayer combats infantry for orks are best decision in 99% of situations
Kerensky
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Re: Balance suggestions

Post by Kerensky »

Hzhto wrote:In multiplayer combats infantry for orks are best decision in 99% of situations
Let me go find those other threads that say infantry are weak and ineffective in this game. I wanna quote this there. :P
FroBodine
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Re: Balance suggestions

Post by FroBodine »

This comment says infantry for ORKS is good. Not the rest of the Imperial infantry. Big difference.
Bersercker
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
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Re: Balance suggestions

Post by Bersercker »

Imperium infantry is kinda decent too imo. Aside form firedrakes and sanguinary guard, imp guards and conscripts are good, snipers and scouts are very strong and cheap, also mortars in areas with a lot of los blockers. Not sure about tactical marines, tried covering them with heavy bolters and devastators against lots of mega armored nobz, but the nobz just focused down support weapons and then killed marines in melee. On the other hand, shootas with big shootas support fire is good against steel legion but is ineffective against marines, and marines bolters are almost as good as antitank support squad against most ork vehicles. Also maybe with mega armored nobz cost nerf tactical marines will become good against them.

Btw, shootas with big shootas might use a cost decrease imo, cause 400 is a bit too much with them being only effective against steel legion infantry. Maybe devastators with heavy bolters and multimeltas as well?
Edit: Oh, shootas with big shootas actually cost 300 req. Well, i guess they could use a buff anyway. xD
Last edited by Bersercker on Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DownTheDrain
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
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Re: Balance suggestions

Post by DownTheDrain »

I have no idea about multiplayer balancing but if Orks need buffs I strongly suggest only changing the price of their units.
Otherwise it might have unwanted results for the campaign, where you're not fighting an evenly matched enemy but are usually outnumbered approximately 347:1. :wink:
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