Hi folks,
I'm a seasoned PzC veteran, and already studied to calculation screen (ALT+mouseclick), but it is still not clear for me.
Let' see an example:
76mm AA gun, AA: 16, ROF: 7 strenght: 10
That means, he's attacking with 16 x 0,7 = 11,2 => 11?
Or it means, he's attacking with 7 times (instead of 10) with 16 attack points? => 7 x 16?
When it gather 200 xp, how modifies this? 16 x 0,9 (0,7+0,2xp) = 14,4 => 14
Or it means, he's attacking with 9 times (7 ROF + 2 XP) with 16 attack points? => 9 x 16?
What is difference, if I overstreght it?
Thanks!
Experience, Overstreght, ROF - how it works?
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Re: Experience, Overstreght, ROF - how it works?
As far i understand RoF only affects the amount of dice rolls. RoF is not affected by experience at all and is calculated as follows: STR of the unit x RoF / 10. A unit will always have the same attack value (modified by experience of course) no matter which RoF it has.
The AA gun from your example at zero experience will roll 7 dices (10 x 7 /10) and the AA value will be 16. With 200 experience, without oversrtength, it will still roll 7 dices but with higher AA, as AA class gets +2 AA per star of experience, so it will have effective AA value of 20. If you overstrength the unit to 12 it will roll 9 dices (12 * 7 / 100 = 0,84 ... i am assuming this gets rounded to 9 not sure about rounding here tho) with an effective AA value of 20.
The AA gun from your example at zero experience will roll 7 dices (10 x 7 /10) and the AA value will be 16. With 200 experience, without oversrtength, it will still roll 7 dices but with higher AA, as AA class gets +2 AA per star of experience, so it will have effective AA value of 20. If you overstrength the unit to 12 it will roll 9 dices (12 * 7 / 100 = 0,84 ... i am assuming this gets rounded to 9 not sure about rounding here tho) with an effective AA value of 20.
Re: Experience, Overstreght, ROF - how it works?
Hi Uhu, let's see if I can help out here...
RoF 7 (=70%) means the unit can only attack with 0,7 times its strength points, in this case 0,7 x 10 = 7 attacks. If your gun is strength 12, you will have 0,7 x 12 = 8,4 attacks. This is rounded down and becomes 8 attacks.
So overstrengthening this gun to 12 will only give you one extra attack. Note that extra attacks are always rounded down, so even if your gun has strength 14, you would get only 2 extra attacks: 0,7 x 14 = 9,8 . This will be rounded down to 9!
To be complete, the attack stats themselves (AA, HA, SA) are calculated and used separate from the RoF.
Experience has no effect on RoF, experience only increases initiative and attack/defense stats (and some hidden things). There is a file named exp.pzdat which lists all stat bonuses for each unit class, and currently for each star an AA unit gets +2 AA (this is more than under the old rules). So a unit that has 16 AA and 200 exp (2 stars) will get 2 x 2 = 4 extra AA. So the total will be 20 AA. If it had 100 exp (1 star) it would have 18 AA. (Under the old 1.14 rules, each star would give +1 AA, so you can see how anti-aircraft was boosted with the new rules.)
I'll just give the numbers for different situations (1.20 rules):
If your gun has zero experience (no stars), and if you do not overstrength it (strength 10):
Your gun than has 7 attacks with AA=16.
If your gun has 200 experience (2 stars), and if you do not overstrength it (strength 10):
Your gun than has 7 attacks with AA=20.
If your gun has 200 experience (2 stars), and if you overstrengthen(?) it (strength 12):
Your gun than has 8 attacks with AA=20.
I hope this helps a bit, if you want more examples or need clarification, just ask!
EDIT: Tarrak, you are very quick!
The second option. A normal unit can make 1 attack (dice roll) for each strength point, this makes the 'default' RoF 10 (=100%).76mm AA gun, AA: 16, ROF: 7 strenght: 10
That means, he's attacking with 16 x 0,7 = 11,2 => 11?
Or it means, he's attacking with 7 times (instead of 10) with 16 attack points? => 7 x 16?
RoF 7 (=70%) means the unit can only attack with 0,7 times its strength points, in this case 0,7 x 10 = 7 attacks. If your gun is strength 12, you will have 0,7 x 12 = 8,4 attacks. This is rounded down and becomes 8 attacks.
So overstrengthening this gun to 12 will only give you one extra attack. Note that extra attacks are always rounded down, so even if your gun has strength 14, you would get only 2 extra attacks: 0,7 x 14 = 9,8 . This will be rounded down to 9!
To be complete, the attack stats themselves (AA, HA, SA) are calculated and used separate from the RoF.
The exp rules were changed with version 1.20, you can now use the old 1.14 rules or the newer ones, I'm not sure which you use? I'll make an example with the new rules:When it gather 200 xp, how modifies this? 16 x 0,9 (0,7+0,2xp) = 14,4 => 14
Or it means, he's attacking with 9 times (7 ROF + 2 XP) with 16 attack points? => 9 x 16?
Experience has no effect on RoF, experience only increases initiative and attack/defense stats (and some hidden things). There is a file named exp.pzdat which lists all stat bonuses for each unit class, and currently for each star an AA unit gets +2 AA (this is more than under the old rules). So a unit that has 16 AA and 200 exp (2 stars) will get 2 x 2 = 4 extra AA. So the total will be 20 AA. If it had 100 exp (1 star) it would have 18 AA. (Under the old 1.14 rules, each star would give +1 AA, so you can see how anti-aircraft was boosted with the new rules.)
I'll just give the numbers for different situations (1.20 rules):
If your gun has zero experience (no stars), and if you do not overstrength it (strength 10):
Your gun than has 7 attacks with AA=16.
If your gun has 200 experience (2 stars), and if you do not overstrength it (strength 10):
Your gun than has 7 attacks with AA=20.
If your gun has 200 experience (2 stars), and if you overstrengthen(?) it (strength 12):
Your gun than has 8 attacks with AA=20.
I hope this helps a bit, if you want more examples or need clarification, just ask!
EDIT: Tarrak, you are very quick!
Re: Experience, Overstreght, ROF - how it works?
Thank you guys for the explanation! It seems noweverything clear.
It is interesting to calculate, if an overstrenght has it value, or because of the round down rule, nothing changes. As I see now, not in many cases. XP works much better and it cost nothing. (except, it the unit needs elitre replacement)
It is interesting to calculate, if an overstrenght has it value, or because of the round down rule, nothing changes. As I see now, not in many cases. XP works much better and it cost nothing.
(except, it the unit needs elitre replacement)
Re: Experience, Overstreght, ROF - how it works?
ThvN, are you sure the amount of dice rolls / attacks really always get rounded down? Sounds a bit silly especially in cases where the number is much more close to the upper boundary then the lower one, like in the example. As i wrote i have no clue about the rounding but it doesn't make any sense .. why not simply use mathematical rounding?
Re: Experience, Overstreght, ROF - how it works?
I don't have a clue, maybe it is an oversight? And yes, the rounding off looks strange indeed, but apparently it is a valid method in mathematics to simply take the whole integer without rounding any fraction to the closest number, so maybe there is a technical reason for it? But the results are a bit annoying sometimes. Finally had time to make a little screenshot, to show why:
I took a 14-str gun with RoF 7. At 10-str it would roll 7 attack dice.
With 14 str, it should roll 0,7 x 14 = 9,8 attack dice. It would be reasonable to assume this would be rounded to the closest integer to make 10 attacks, but the combat log shows otherwise, see the screenshot.
What is annoying is that at 13 str it would roll 0,7 x 14 = 9,1 which gives 9 attack dice. As you can see 14-str gives 9 as well! So the only benefit of overstrengthening from 13 to 14 is to make the unit able to take one more hit before dropping in effectiveness... Not really worth the money.
I noticed this effect long ago when I found out that an 11-str Sturmpanzer only has 9 attacks, the same when it is at 10-str. Although my calculation was 0,9 x 11 = 9,9. And then again at 12-str only 10 attack dice (calculated 10,8).
I took a 14-str gun with RoF 7. At 10-str it would roll 7 attack dice.
With 14 str, it should roll 0,7 x 14 = 9,8 attack dice. It would be reasonable to assume this would be rounded to the closest integer to make 10 attacks, but the combat log shows otherwise, see the screenshot.
What is annoying is that at 13 str it would roll 0,7 x 14 = 9,1 which gives 9 attack dice. As you can see 14-str gives 9 as well! So the only benefit of overstrengthening from 13 to 14 is to make the unit able to take one more hit before dropping in effectiveness... Not really worth the money.
I noticed this effect long ago when I found out that an 11-str Sturmpanzer only has 9 attacks, the same when it is at 10-str. Although my calculation was 0,9 x 11 = 9,9. And then again at 12-str only 10 attack dice (calculated 10,8).
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Re: Experience, Overstreght, ROF - how it works?
I think the game round down too.
Playing in chess mode, I had a strange case when I was better attacking a unit without bombarding it with my fighter first!
When I used fighter first, to reduce the entrenchment value, I would take 1 more loss in the following ground combat, than when I don't use the fighter. This was due to rounding.
Playing in chess mode, I had a strange case when I was better attacking a unit without bombarding it with my fighter first!
When I used fighter first, to reduce the entrenchment value, I would take 1 more loss in the following ground combat, than when I don't use the fighter. This was due to rounding.