Medieval Africa Sub-Sahara

youngr · Post by **youngr** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:35 am

I've made an attempt at compiling army lists for Medieval African sub-Sahara. If RBS or anyone on the FOG team is interested in this info please drop me a line and I'll pass it on.

Cheers

Richard

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:09 am

I'm not the only one who finds all army lists and the facts behind them to be very interesting, and I'm sure your contribution would be quite welcome since this is the forum provided as a resource for army design. The Authors appear ubiquitous on these forums so you can expect they'll read it as well.

Cheers

Mike

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:02 pm

I have already submitted lists on the Saheal. Based on my research for an article in Time Portal Passages and an Osprey style book proposal. And of course I needed to do a lot of research for the Saheal 15mm range that I just had sculpted at War Eagle Designs.

Their status is unknown. A lot of production considerations and publication sequence issues.

Their may be other issues and possibilities as well.

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:10 pm

i had to deal with some issues at home. To continue:
YoungR hich lists did you include?

My lists include Minor Pagan City-States; Imperial Ghana: Mali-Songhai; Bornu; Balala - central Africa sedenyary tribes; Migratory Tribes; Taureg and one of my favorite Hausa City States.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:36 pm

Richard, feel free to email it to me and I'll pass it on.

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:37 pm

Thanks Nik for asking that Mr Young foward them.
Not being a moderator, I wanted to compare analysis but I did not feel that it was right for me to ask that they be fowarded to you.

youngr · Post by **youngr** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:02 am

Rudy_Nelson wrote:i had to deal with some issues at home. To continue:
YoungR hich lists did you include?

My lists include Minor Pagan City-States; Imperial Ghana: Mali-Songhai; Bornu; Balala - central Africa sedenyary tribes; Migratory Tribes; Taureg and one of my favorite Hausa City States.

Hi

I included Later Abyssinian, Horn of Africa, Beja, East African Coastal, Great Zimbabwe, Benin, Kongo, Ghana, Mali & Songhai, Mossi, Bornu & Bulala. I haven't done one for the Hausa yet.

Cheers

Richard

youngr · Post by **youngr** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:14 am

nikgaukroger wrote:Richard, feel free to email it to me and I'll pass it on.

Cheers Nik. Will do. It'll be interesting to compare with what Rudy has done also.

Richard

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:58 pm

An interesting list of areas. I did not do Benin, Kongo and some of the others. I did the East Africa region including Meroe Kush and divided the Beja and other nomadic tribes of the region into two groups.

Due to the Space limits, I merged several countries and stopped at 1500 which is the end of the era. The end date leaves out some countries and campaigns in the region. I am in the process of re-editing my narratives, allies and lists now to account for the end at 1500.

This was why I did not do Benin though a lot of source material is out there on Benin in the 1500-1600s.
However, Mr Young I think we should hang onto our notes in case the next era is addressed! At least we can hope that they have uch plans.

Oh yes I just got back my 15mm masters for two Tauregs on camels and a Saheal Handgunner plus another archer pose. they will fit in nicely with the rest of the Saheal range.

youngr · Post by **youngr** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:05 pm

Rudy_Nelson wrote:An interesting list of areas. I did not do Benin, Kongo and some of the others. I did the East Africa region including Meroe Kush and divided the Beja and other nomadic tribes of the region into two groups.

Due to the Space limits, I merged several countries and stopped at 1500 which is the end of the era. The end date leaves out some countries and campaigns in the region. I am in the process of re-editing my narratives, allies and lists now to account for the end at 1500.

This was why I did not do Benin though a lot of source material is out there on Benin in the 1500-1600s.
However, Mr Young I think we should hang onto our notes in case the next era is addressed! At least we can hope that they have uch plans.

Oh yes I just got back my 15mm masters for two Tauregs on camels and a Saheal Handgunner plus another archer pose. they will fit in nicely with the rest of the Saheal range.

Dear Mr Nelson

My dates were medieval from c.800 to 1500 AD. I just looked at the major kingdoms south of Sahara, except for Christian Nubian for which a FoG list has already been done (but not yet published). Out of interest, what sources did you use for Mali and Hausa?

Cheers

Richard

Probert · Post by **Probert** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:45 pm

Rudy,

Good to see you over here. You are truly a man of many talents. Sorry I will be AWOL for RECON this year, but et us know how well Fog is represented.

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:03 pm

Hi Probert,
I will leave for the Orlando show on Thursday. i am expecting a shipment of Osprey and FoG items from my distributor before i depart. Of course I will have to pull the pre-order items.

I am curious about FoG at the Florida shows. It have never been strong in Ancient sales when compared to the Louisiana -Ms group. i am hoping FoG will change that.

Probert · Post by **Probert** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:38 am

I am not going to be able to make it to RECON this year. It is a great show, but I will be supervising a three year old, and he does not mix well with miniatures.

Let us know how FoG and other ancients games are received at RECON.

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:20 pm

A few Internet sites:
“Art and Life in Africa Online” by Lee McIntyre and Christopher Ray. www.zyama.com
“African Odyssey” by the Kennedy Center. www.artsedge.kennedy-center.org
“Western Sahara” www.xavier.xula.edu

Books:
“African Kingdoms” by Basil Davidson. Time-Life, 1966.
“African States and Rulers by John Stewart. Mcfarland Press, Jefferson, NC.
“Africa to 1875” by Robin Hallett. U. of Michigan Press, 1970.
:Ancient Ghana and Mali” by Nehemiah Levtzion, . New York: Africana. 1980.
“Centuries of Greatness: The West African Kingdoms, 750-1900”. by Philip Koslow, New York: Chelsea House, 1994.
“A History of the African People” by Robert July. Waveland Press, Prospect Heights, Illinois, 1992.
“The Kingdoms of Africa”. by Peter Garlake, New York: Bedrick, 1990.
“Oriental Costumes: Their Designs and Colors” by Max Tilke, Berlin, 1922. A translation of this book can be found on the internet at : www.indiana.edu/libcsd/etei/tilke
The Royal Kingdoms of Ghana, Mali, and Songhai: Life in Medieval Africa. by Patricia, and Fredrick McKissack, New York: Henry Holt, 1994.
A Short History of Benin by J.U. Eghareuba, 1960.
“A Short History of Africa” by Oliver and Fage. Facts on File, 1988.
Sokoto Empire and Its Enemies by R.A. Adeleye.
“Warfare on the West African Slave Coast, 1650-1850” by Robin Law; ” In War in the Tribal Zone: Expanding States and Indigenous Warfare, edited by R. Brian Ferguson and Neil L. Whitehead. Santa Fe, N.Mex.: School of American Research Press, 1992.
“West African Kingdoms in the Nineteenth Century”, by D. Forde and P.M. Kaberry, 1967.
“Yoruba Warfare in the Nineteenth Century” by R.S. Smith and J.F.A. Ajayi, Cambridge press, 1964.
“Weapons and Warfare”, 2 volumes, editor John Powell, Salem Press, 2001.

The following sources were graciously loaned to my local library through the Inter-Library Loan Program. The first titles are part of the Ibaden History series.
Benin and the Europeans by Alan Ryder, 1969, Humanities Press.
The New Oyo Empire: 1894-1934 by J.A. Atanda, 1973, Humanities Press.
The Segu-Tukulor Empire by B. O. Qlqruntimehin, 1972, Humanities Press.
The Sokoto Caliphate by Murray Last, 1967, Humanities Press.

History of Yoruba by S. Johnson, 1921.
Kingdoms of the Yoruba by R.S. Smith, Methuen Press, 1969.
Koslow, Philip." "The Lake People." Centuries of greatness, 750-1900 : the West African kingdoms. New York : Chelsea House, 1995. pg. 63+. (966 KOS).
Spring, Christopher. "Horseman with Quilted armor and chain mail ." African Arms and Armour. London: British Museum Press, 1993.
Koslow, Philip. "Kanembu bodyguard of Sheikh al-Kanemi." Engraving Kanem-Borno : 1,000 years of splendor. New York : Chelsea House Pub, 1995

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:32 pm

Richard asked that I provide some Bibliographic material.

These are some that I used which are easy to get by the local researchers. I have not added a few books that have been released in the past year which I have at my store.

youngr · Post by **youngr** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:08 pm

Rudy_Nelson wrote:snip

Books:
“African Kingdoms” by Basil Davidson. Time-Life, 1966.
“African States and Rulers by John Stewart. Mcfarland Press, Jefferson, NC.
“Africa to 1875” by Robin Hallett. U. of Michigan Press, 1970.
:Ancient Ghana and Mali” by Nehemiah Levtzion, . New York: Africana. 1980.

Hi

Thanks Rudy. I've read most of these although several have little to contribute on war etc and a few are very vague and misleading IMO. I don't have my list of references to hand as I'm currently working overseas but others worth looking at that I possess include those books by Pankhurst on Abyssinia, Munro-Hay on Abyssinia of course, medieval west africa - views of arab scholars & merchants by Levtzion et al, Warfare in Atlantic Africa by Thornton, that translation of Ibn Fartua's 16th century Bornu - the campaigns of Alooma, translations of the Diwan of Kanem-Bornu, the Kano Chronicle, Ibn Battuta and Leo Africanus, Portuguese encounters in East Africa by Newitt, there is also a PhD thesis on pre-colonial warfare in Benin that Duncan Head passed on to me. These contain information prior to the 19th century, much of it closer to original rather than third-hand like some texts although you have to dig around to find relevant information of course. Those books by Oliver and Davidson give a great overview of African pre-colonial history, especially 'Medieval Africa 1250-1800' by Oliver & Atmore. Good reading!

Cheers

Richard

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:18 pm

I scan the books that are not specific data but i find them useful in identifying enemies and allies for certain time frames and countries.

One of the best series which I was not able to get all of them at the time , I did the article but I have gotten later was the local university series done by The Ibaden History series.

MarkSieber · Post by **MarkSieber** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:13 am

Thanks, Rudy! I had not seen some of these.

While not strictly military, some other interesting sources are:

The Middle Age of African History. Roland Oliver, Editor. Oxford University Press 1967

Kingdoms of the Savanna, A history of Central African States until European occupation by Jan Vansina, University of Wisconsin 1966

Arabic External Sources for the History of Africa to the South of the Sahara. Tadeuz Lewicki, London, Curzon Press Ltd; Lagos, Pilgrim Books Ltd. 1969, 1974 ( Polska Akadamia Nauk--Oddzial W Krakowie Prace Komisiji Orienalistycznej Nr. 9) This is a narrative bibliographic overview.

A History of the Gold Coast of West Africa, A. B. Ellis. Rowan and Littlefield 1971

For ideas for painting armies, I recommend books and articles on traditional African textiles & dress.These may give some sense of the techniques, colors & forms that may have been in use in the kingdoms. Notice particularly Hausa, Fulani and Tuareg leatherwork & horse trappings, usually in dark red and verdigris green. (see http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2 ... saddle.jpg)

Rudy_Nelson · Post by **Rudy_Nelson** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:28 pm

Painting Sahel is a lot different than some Moslem armies which may seem drab. That area in the forest region was a source for tree bark and plant dyes. I ahve seen wonderful pictures of Bright greens, Reds and Yellows in some pictures. Even some interesting shots of what we would call re-enactors at festivals in the mali-Songhai-Hausa region.

MarkSieber · Post by **MarkSieber** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:34 pm

For textiles, see also:

Patterns of Life, West African Strip-Weaving Traditions. Peggy Stoltz Gilfoy 1987 Smithsonian

African Textiles and Decorative Arts. Roy Sieber 1972 Museum of Modern Art
(full disclosure: this is by my late father, who was a professor of African art and a curator at the Smithsonian. I lived for several stints in West Africa: in northern Nigeria as a child, and Ghana as a teen.)

http://www.joelmayer.com/niger/ado/couverture.html

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/fula_2 ... .446.3.htm

For Arms, see also:

Nigerian Panoply, Arms and Armour of the Northern Region. A.D.H. Bivar. Department of Antiquities Federal Republic of Nigeria 1964
He discusses Islamic swords, and interestingly, two mail shirts found in Northern Nigeria: one Mamluk, and one likely German, which he dates to c. 1450. (Bivar has also written on Sassanian arms in the Dumbarton Oaks papers.) Mail shirts sometimes show up at the re-enactor festivals--these are family panoplies passed down for generations. My sister did some archeological work in Hausaland in the 1980's and gave me a photo of some cavalry from such a festival. I'll send it along after my house repairs are complete and I can get to my stuff...

Iron Work from Central Africa, H. Westerdijk, 1975 Rotterdam. Specific to Central African knives and swords.

A Glossary of the Constuction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times. George Cameron Stone. Various publishers and dates, orig. 1934