[Bug] Number of shots

[CiZerin]

Here an example: 2 Hellhounds (Attacker) vs 30 Gretchets (Defender)


Hellhound has 6 initiative and Gretchets only 1, so Atackers go 1st.
Inferno cannon has 3 shots. And Hellhound strength in our example is 2. So 2*3=6 shots. In our simulation Cannons missed 2 times and deal 4 hits total. It will kills 4 Gretchets (because they have 1 HP all 2 dmg hits only kill 1 Gretchet).
Heavy Bolter has 2 shots, so 2*2=4 shots. In our simulation Bolters missed 1 time, Deflected 1 time and 2 hits total. It will kills 2 Gretchets.
So after our attack 6 Gretchets die and now there're only 30-6=24 Gretchets.

Now it's greenpower turn.
Gretchets has only 1 Range weapon, Slugga, and it deals 2 shots. So, our 24 Gretchets should deals 24*2=48 shots. Lets check simulator...number of shots: 52. 52/2=26. WHO THOSE 2 LUCKY GRETCHETS?!?!

Ok, ok, may be dmg deals only AFTER firefight? Let's see, 30 Gretchets with Slugga will deal 30*2=60 shots. Hmmm and in simulator we have 52 shots... 60-52=8... As we can see on screenshot Inferno Cannon deals 1+1+2+2 Dmg and Heavy Bolter deals 1+1 Dmg. Totaly 8 Dmg...8...

Another example: 30 Steel Legion Infantry (Attacker) vs 30 Gretchets (Defender)


30 Infantry Strengh * 2 Lasgun shots = 60 Number of shots. Same in simulator. As we can see, Infantry hits only 16 times. So it kills 16 Gretchets. Now there're only 30-16=14 Gretchets and they should do 14*2=28 numbers of shots....WRONG! According to simulator they'll shoot 44 times. Deal with it

[CiZerin]

Any answers from dev team?

[Aloo]

Im no dev team but if they didnt find time to reply I can try guessing whats going on. The devs stated in some topic (please dont ask me to find it) that for each point of initiative difference you get to kill one unit (or was it that you get to cause one HP damage?) before he has a chance to shoot back. But that is not right with your numbers. Im guessing there is also some roll to add to your and AIs initiative as it happened in PzC (there I think you and the AI could get anywhere from 0 to 2 points added to effective initiative). I didnt play with the combat log so Im not sure if it shows what is going on with initiative and I might be wrong.

But looking at your first example it might be correct. The initiative difference is 5 points so you would get to kill 5 gretchins before they shoot back so there should be 25 shooting back (50 shots) but if there is a roll and they rolled one higher than you the difference would be 4 points so only 4 get killed before their turn and 26 get to shoot for a total of 52 shots.

This is just guess work based on what I read here and remember from PzC so you need somebody to confirm this.

[CiZerin]

The devs stated in some topic (please dot ask me to find it) that for each point of initiative difference you get to kill one unit (or was it cause one HP damage?) before he has a chance to shoot back. .

Now THAT makes sense. I've done a little research and it seams you're right.
As I can see final formula will be something like that:

Initiative advantage * Accuracy Modifire * Penetration
Where:

Initiative advantage = (Attaker Base Initiative + Attaker Moral Modifier + Attaker 1d3) - (Defender Base Initiative + Defender Moral Modifier + Defender 1d3)
Accuracy Modifire = (it's a combination of Unit Accuracy, Weapon Accuracy, Cover and LoS)/100. But the final formula is far from my knowlege...
Penetration = 1d(100/((Attacker Strength - Defender Defence*(Attacker Armor Piercing/100)) + 50))

where 1dX is 1 dice roll with X sides (but Attacker 1d3 has 0,1,2 values on its sides!)

There is somehow should be expierence modifier and overstrength modifier, but I really dont know how.

And it's very frustrating, that dev team can't give us clear answers.

[Aloo]

Ok I searched for this information about initiative effects and its right here: viewtopic.php?p=507794#p507794

[CiZerin]

Ok I searched for this information about initiative effects and its right here: viewtopic.php?p=507794#p507794

10 Combat simulator results for 30 Infantry vs 30 Gretchets
1) Initiative Adventage: 1 | Number of shots 58 -- OK ((30-1)*2=58)
2) Initiative Adventage: 5 | Number of shots 50 -- OK ((30-5)*2=50)
3) Initiative Adventage: 4 | Number of shots 54 -- Wrong ((30-4)*2=52)
4) Initiative Adventage: 1 | Number of shots 58 -- OK ((30-1)*2=58)
5) Initiative Adventage: 1 | Number of shots 58 -- OK ((30-1)*2=58)
6) Initiative Adventage: 2 | Number of shots 56 -- OK ((30-2)*2=56)
7) Initiative Adventage: 4 | Number of shots 54 -- Wrong ((30-4)*2=52)
8 ) Initiative Adventage: 5 | Number of shots 52 -- Wrong ((30-5)*2=50)
9) Initiative Adventage: 1 | Number of shots 58 -- OK ((30-1)*2=58)
10) Initiative Adventage: 1 | Number of shots 58 -- OK ((30-1)*2=58)

[nexusno2000]

Ok I searched for this information about initiative effects and its right here: viewtopic.php?p=507794#p507794

Thanks. Very helpful!