Combat Mechanics - Tips & Tricks & Guides

[Beetlelord]

Hi all,

Considering the last thread was subject to Exterminatus, and had a lot of good info, I thought we should make a new thread to consolidate our newlly acquired grasp of the combat mechanics in Armageddon. They're deep, they're poorly documented at the moment but they're awesome.

So to copy..arg I can't recall your name. I'll credit you but this is what we know:

A unit has an accuracy value. This is reduced 10% per Hex
Morale is represented by the colours white, yellow, orange red.
Morale (Combat Readiness) affects accuracy
Morale can be restored by using 'Rest & Refit'
Rest & Refit can replenish squad members if units in the squad have more than 1hp.

Units with multiple weapons have multiple ranges.
Weapons will fire only if they are in range
A banewolf/devildog will fire it's Heavy Bolter up t o 3 hexes away, but it's chemical/melta cannon is range 1, so you would need to be at range 1 to fire both weapons

The amount of shots is calculated using the amount of units and attack number
A 20 man platoon of lasguns with 2 attacks will therefore have 40 attacks

Attacks are calculated by measuring Strength against Armour
50 Str vs 50 Armour would give a 50% chance to wound
60 Str vs 50 Armour would give a 60% chance to wound
AP Values reduce enemy armour, so 10% AP means a 10% reduction in the target armour


Finally, the most important one:
The 'estimation values' when you hover over an enemy are HITPOINTS removed, NOT units.
For example, you hover over a battlewagon with 5 wagons in the unit. It says -5 on your attack, but this means you will remove 5 hitpoints. If the BWs have 5hps each you will kill only ONE battlewagon

If anyone has any other information breaking down the Wall of Confusion, please add.

Also any roleplaying guides, unit compositions and general strategies would be welcome

The Beetle Battalion

My battalion currently consists of
3x Armageddon-pattern Basilisks
1x Lleman Russ Annihilator
1x Lleman Russ Punisher
3x Steel Legion Infantry platoons mounted in Chimeras
1x Scout Salamander
1x Sentinel
2x Valkyrie with lascannons and hellstrikes
2x Hellhounds

I love the arty. It seems highly effective, and frankly the thought of engaging most ork units without first bombing the hex to rubble scares me

I run the Annihilator/Punisher to give a mix of AI and AV.

My scouts are 5/10 vet and currently seem to dish out more pain than my Leman Russes.

Valks seem useful for engaging ork units with longer range/artillery weapons. ]

Ave Imperator,

Beetle

[rezaf]

A Lleman Russ firing a full salvo of Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter and Lascannon will need to be close
A Lleman russ firing it's battle cannon can be further away

This is unfortunately a bad example / not correct, as the Battle Cannon, the Heavy Bolter and the Lascannon all have a range of 3.
_____
rezaf

[genehaynes]

1. Is there a benfit in attacking with multiple adjacent units? For example, if you move several of your units next to an enemy unit before attacking, do you gain an attack bonus?

2. Is there a way to display detailed combat results of the last combat ( i.e. Show all the variables used to determine the combat results) similar to to PzC? I seem to remember that PzC had a CRTL- ???? that would display the factors used to determine the results.

Finally, I agree with several of the previous posts concerning combat......the manual should have a much more detailed explanation regarding the factors effecting combat results. It shouoldn't be up to the folks who bought the game the try to figure out combat mechanics.

[Aloo]

1. Is there a benfit in attacking with multiple adjacent units? For example, if you move several of your units next to an enemy unit before attacking, do you gain an attack bonus?

2. Is there a way to display detailed combat results of the last combat ( i.e. Show all the variables used to determine the combat results) similar to to PzC? I seem to remember that PzC had a CRTL- ???? that would display the factors used to determine the results.

Finally, I agree with several of the previous posts concerning combat......the manual should have a much more detailed explanation regarding the factors effecting combat results. It shouoldn't be up to the folks who bought the game the try to figure out combat mechanics.

3. On the map the units facing is shown with an arrow. Does this do anything? Or is it a left over from some function that didn't make it into the game.

4. What does experience do?

[sdeix75]

experiance is a loss to me i have a unit with 10 skulls and nothing maybe to be added later. its the only major problem i have with the game.

first act is extremely hard but then gets a bit easier which is understandable as they are over running you at that time.

[Kerensky]

Range is indeed hugely important, especially when using units whose weaponry does not have uniform range. Very good points. I added some pictures to visually explain the Reaver weaponry here.

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 20#p507884

[Dragoon.]

Requisition points don't' carry over and if I don't use a free slot I lose it next battle. I noticed both is that intended? Leftover requisition points at the end of the battle won't even added to the glory points. So it seem there is no incentive to save resources but instead go all in.

[Density]

Rest & Refit can replenish squad members if units in the squad have more than 1hp.

Is this correct? Or do you mean restore hit points. I think the option is greyed out if you try resting your unit at full health with members missing. As far as I'm aware the "reinforce" option is the only way and it costs money.

Attacks are calculated by measuring Strength against Armour
50 Str vs 50 Armour would give a 50% chance to wound
60 Str vs 50 Armour would give a 60% chance to wound
AP Values reduce enemy armour, so 10% AP means a 10% reduction in the target armour

I want to know the exact formula here. It seems pretty arcane. Do you think I'd have to be inducted into the adeptus mechanicus first?

[Kathapalt]

Requisition points don't' carry over and if I don't use a free slot I lose it next battle. I noticed both is that intended? Leftover requisition points at the end of the battle won't even added to the glory points. So it seem there is no incentive to save resources but instead go all in.

I have noticed that Requisition points do carry over but they are first used to replenish troop strenght after battle automatically, i had aroud 1500 points saved but lost some units strenght (not stacks) and on the next game i had 29 requisition points left and still few unrepaired units. Also if you replenish troops to full, it will reduce the unit experience significantly.

This is the biggest problem i have in this game, playing on normal difficulty but even if i dont lose units i dont get any requisition points and troops dont get experienced as the experience drops when you replenish.
if its intentional hope the values can be edited or something.

[rezaf]

I have noticed that Requisition points do carry over but they are first used to replenish troop strenght after battle automatically, i had aroud 1500 points saved but lost some units strenght (not stacks) and on the next game i had 29 requisition points left and still few unrepaired units. Also if you replenish troops to full, it will reduce the unit experience significantly.
(...)
if its intentional hope the values can be edited or something.

Yeah, another decision that I find questionable. But in typical Rudankort fashion he has wiped elite reinforcements completely, so even if someone disagrees with the design decision, there's no way to mod them back in. All you can do is go in gamerules.whdat and increase the amount of XP the green reinforcements will have. I think I'll eventually increase this to 100, but I'll first try to finish a playthrough with vanilla settings.
Considering the fact that a number of PzC players were lobbying for more incremental reinforcements, I can only shake my head in disbelief about this move in the exact opposite direction, but ... yeah, that's how it is. Nothing we can do about it.
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rezaf

[Kathapalt]

I have noticed that Requisition points do carry over but they are first used to replenish troop strenght after battle automatically, i had aroud 1500 points saved but lost some units strenght (not stacks) and on the next game i had 29 requisition points left and still few unrepaired units. Also if you replenish troops to full, it will reduce the unit experience significantly.
(...)
if its intentional hope the values can be edited or something.

Yeah, another decision that I find questionable. But in typical Rudankort fashion he has wiped elite reinforcements completely, so even if someone disagrees with the design decision, there's no way to mod them back in. All you can do is go in gamerules.whdat and increase the amount of XP the green reinforcements will have. I think I'll eventually increase this to 100, but I'll first try to finish a playthrough with vanilla settings.
Considering the fact that a number of PzC players were lobbying for more incremental reinforcements, I can only shake my head in disbelief about this move in the exact opposite direction, but ... yeah, that's how it is. Nothing we can do about it.
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rezaf

You dont happen to know where could i increase the requisition point gain after battle or just add huge amount at once, so i can fix my units and actually gain some requisition points after battle?
its really depressing to win a battle without loses and gain nothing, Also makes the gameplay boring when you have to be carefull to not lose any strenght on any units or no points after battle.

[JimmyC]

I have noticed that Requisition points do carry over but they are first used to replenish troop strenght after battle automatically, i had aroud 1500 points saved but lost some units strenght (not stacks) and on the next game i had 29 requisition points left and still few unrepaired units. Also if you replenish troops to full, it will reduce the unit experience significantly.
(...)
if its intentional hope the values can be edited or something.

Yeah, another decision that I find questionable. But in typical Rudankort fashion he has wiped elite reinforcements completely, so even if someone disagrees with the design decision, there's no way to mod them back in. All you can do is go in gamerules.whdat and increase the amount of XP the green reinforcements will have. I think I'll eventually increase this to 100, but I'll first try to finish a playthrough with vanilla settings.
Considering the fact that a number of PzC players were lobbying for more incremental reinforcements, I can only shake my head in disbelief about this move in the exact opposite direction, but ... yeah, that's how it is. Nothing we can do about it.
_____
rezaf

As a PzC player i would welcome a button to reinforce all units during setup. But i'd want it to be a button, rather than automatically applied. And yeah, it is a bummer you can't elite reinforce, although i am still to identify the effect of experience vs non-experienced ones?

Regarding reinforcements though, my main bugbear is that it doesn't make sense to be able to fully replenish units during combat (the same is true for PzC). It would have been nice if they had implemented some restrictions, such as only being able to reinforce 50% of the units starting size per turn, or something like that. That would seem to make more sense as it would be harder to stream in reinforcements during a battle. It would add a bit more realism.

[rezaf]

You dont happen to know where could i increase the requisition point gain after battle or just add huge amount at once, so i can fix my units and actually gain some requisition points after battle?

I can't verify it now as I'm not on my gaming rig, but I have noticed scenario/campaign scripting has also been disimproved, or so it seemed. The only place where I could find prestige mentioned is in the scenario files themselves. Try saving on the last turn of a scenario, open the scenario file of the next mission and increase the Points value in the Sides tab of Edit->Scenario Params.
If you load your savegame, finish the mission and then start the next, it SHOULD have the effect of giving you the amount of prestige you entered.
Just to be on the safe side, please make sure to back up the original scenario file - that could save you a reinstall if something goes wrong.
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rezaf

[rezaf]

Regarding reinforcements though, my main bugbear is that it doesn't make sense to be able to fully replenish units during combat (the same is true for PzC). (...) It would add a bit more realism.

Realism be damned. This game is brutal enough as it is, if you were unable to fully reinforce your units during battle, they'd drop like flies. And in a game with a core-building metagame and no advanced mechanics like breaking/retreating and potentially extremely high losses, this is a recipe for frustration.
_____
rezaf

[Kathapalt]

As a PzC player i would welcome a button to reinforce all units during setup. But i'd want it to be a button, rather than automatically applied. And yeah, it is a bummer you can't elite reinforce, although i am still to identify the effect of experience vs non-experienced ones?

Regarding reinforcements though, my main bugbear is that it doesn't make sense to be able to fully replenish units during combat (the same is true for PzC). It would have been nice if they had implemented some restrictions, such as only being able to reinforce 50% of the units starting size per turn, or something like that. That would seem to make more sense as it would be harder to stream in reinforcements during a battle. It would add a bit more realism.

They should copy the system used in Fantasy general and rites of war. when you attack you cause deaths or wounds, now lets say your unit of 20 men got 3 deaths and 5 wounds the size would go to 12, when you rest it would only heal wounds so you would go 17 maximum for the senario . this way you could not replenish your stacs infinetely.

[Kathapalt]

You dont happen to know where could i increase the requisition point gain after battle or just add huge amount at once, so i can fix my units and actually gain some requisition points after battle?

I can't verify it now as I'm not on my gaming rig, but I have noticed scenario/campaign scripting has also been disimproved, or so it seemed. The only place where I could find prestige mentioned is in the scenario files themselves. Try saving on the last turn of a scenario, open the scenario file of the next mission and increase the Points value in the Sides tab of Edit->Scenario Params.
If you load your savegame, finish the mission and then start the next, it SHOULD have the effect of giving you the amount of prestige you entered.
Just to be on the safe side, please make sure to back up the original scenario file - that could save you a reinstall if something goes wrong.
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rezaf

Thanks for the advice, you might have saved my armageddon play =)
just started to get too frustrated to the point of ditching the game.
I think otherwise the game rocks!!

[Kerensky]

Thought I'd share some possible 'load screen tips' we are considering to this thread. Seems like they might be helpful to share early.

1 When spending Points, remember to keep a healthy reserve for issuing replacements and also for replacing units destroyed in action! Don't spend all your points up front during the deploy phase unless you really want to go all in!
2 Infantry require cover to operate effectively, even when on the offensive!
3 Artillery units are excellent when used to soften up a tough or well defended enemy from a safe distance!
4 Most weapons can fire across multiple hexes, but most weapons also lose accuracy when firing from longer distances!
5 If a weapon has a range indicator such as 2-3, it means the weapon only fire at those ranges and cannot fire at range 1!
6 Pay attention to weapon graphics, they are strong indicator of exactly which weapons are actually firing!
7 Infantry units armed with assault weapons ignore terrain cover when using those assault weapons!
8 Combined arms tactics are very powerful, be sure to bring a few of each type of unit and not too many of the same!
9 As a unit's morale falls, turning their strength plate from white to red, they suffer from combat penalties such as reduced accuracy and reduced initiative!
10 Unit hit points only recover by one per rest action. A Titan with 10/15 hit points takes 5 full turns to refit back to full strength!
11 Pick the right weapon for the right job! A high strength weapon might seem to be strong against infantry, but a weapon with a much higher rate of fire will get the job done much more efficiently!
12 Pay attention to the cover ratings that different terrains give!
13 Non-infantry units gained a reduced amount of cover bonus from terrain.
14 Game too easy? There are three full difficulty settings higher than the default level for you to test your mettle against!
15 Infantry are often required to take some Victory Hexes, many vehicles are often too large to enter these hexes!
16 Victory and objective hexes can be identified by their golden outline!
17 CORE units have a gold border plate, AUXILIARY units have a grey border plate, and mission critical special units have a unique border plate!
18 Pay attention to your mission objectives and message prompts; objectives will sometimes change in the middle of a battle!
19 Unit's with the leadership trait are very important for keeping up the morale of nearby units without the need for constant rest actions!
20 Always bring dedicated scouting units to screen your main advance, preventing enemy counterattacks from reaching your expensive combat and artillery units is very important!

[Kerensky]

You can also tweak points in diff.whdat, which is the file that governs difficulty modes and exactly what they do. For example looking at the file, you can see 'easy' mode gives 200% to points, while normal mode gives 100% of set values. Remember to edit this file in notepad or a similar simple word document program, editing this file through excel can cause problems, as evidenced here in this thread!

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=324&t=54396

[Kathapalt]

You can also tweak points in diff.whdat, which is the file that governs difficulty modes and exactly what they do. For example looking at the file, you can see 'easy' mode gives 200% to points, while normal mode gives 100% of set values. Remember to edit this file in notepad or a similar simple word document program, editing this file through excel can cause problems, as evidenced here in this thread!

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=324&t=54396

This is great news i only need more points, other parametes are just right for me on normal difficulty.

[rezaf]

You can also tweak points in diff.whdat, which is the file that governs difficulty modes and exactly what they do.

Good call Kerensky. Thanks also for the "Did you know?" list - some of it seems obvious, but maybe it is not for each player.
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rezaf