Beta 4.0 newbie impressions

[zakblood]

build number is Version 0.05 beta1 (Nov 14 2014)

i have no idea on the universe type war hammer, as in i have never played this type of game before, but have read a few comics growing up so it's not totally new to me....

the game concept seems ok, layout is a bit tired looking, but i go into that more later...

download and installed fine, installer writing was so small in some parts you couldn't read it, but i guess nobody every does anyway...

loaded it up, after playing / testing other latest war type games and thought in the first few seconds it was a bit basic tbh, lacks the feel and looks of a modern today type game sorry...

played up to tutorial 4 only i think before i saved it and went off to bed... so have no idea of later stuff so please don't tell me it there but later in the game, it's a early impression and review mixed...

so this isn't a right away review either, it's with consideration and sleep but does concern the first looks and play tests of the first half an hour of so of the game.


seems no better no worse than the old space marines & old laser squad aka type Laser Squad Nemesis clone type game made many many years ago and all 3 played tbh.

have looked at the editor and found it very basic so this maybe why the game isn't as good looking as it maybe could be, maybe the engine used is the older type here and not one of the more lets say modern ones i'm use to seeing here...

sounds also atm are pretty basic if i was honest, and that's what I'm trying to be here, not negative for the sake of it, it's a first impression review from a none player of this series of games, if it is a series etc, as also i have no idea, but know the war hammer name has been around for a while as i'm 48 next

but will answer all in more depth below...

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so lets get down to rumble, game play.

first few missions (tutorials) tbh are a basic teaching lesson for unit control, and are ok to medium at that at best, poor at worst.

reasons for above comments are, next to no return fire, little real combat or feel of it, small scale map, small units with very little going off either on screen or with map size used, so basic but playable and it does teach the basics, even to a new player like me. (you are dropped in at the deep end with no real idea of what or why you here doing anything tbh) story is everything for believe ability and a good story can make a game, no story realizes on buyers to already know it and get straight in, so unless target audience is all older players of the known universe, that will be fine , but newer players who may or may not have any idea of the concept or universe maybe left a bit dazzled and complexed to know the reasons why you do what you are doing, and yes i know it's only a game, but if Avatar the film didn't explain why you was doing what you did, that also would be a mystery...

what it doesn't explain is the universe concept, which is good if you already know it, poor if you don't..

example what is war hammer, what are the unit in the game doing? who is there enemy etc etc, good if you know it, like i said, poor if you have no idea of the game concept, yes the manual with or should give you the back ground and info to bring you up to speed, but i don't have that, so it's just an observation and comment as feedback is asked for so here it is.

seems i'm not the first to post this either

Code: Select all

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=321&t=53568

and tbh won't be the last when it hits steam

graphics

for a modern soon to be released game, it doesn't look fantastic or even good, but is functional and does display all you need to see, all be it in a now dated feel, sorry again

zoom in and units are jagged and the ground all looks so far mostly the same, seems a lot of effort has been put into by looking at the bug list and fixes at game play with little attention or very little comments on looks...

a few errors found so far with mouse point being left over a unit or top screen and the under neither message gets left unseen, scroll to map edge and al your units shake etc, small issues but basic ones all the same...

a few minutes with the inbuilt editor and yes i couldn't do any better either with it, so it's just a comment for feedback purposes only, and tbh is what others may say anyway so you will hear it either now or when it's released, as steam users aren't always nice in there comments once something is seen or bought.

so you either except it now from a nice friendly user who is testing it or a disgruntled steam user who spam's the steam forums with poor posts and negative reviews, either way it may happen, and tbh most of the time does as not everyone will like it, tbh i do, but again i'll go into that more later also below...

will end this and post and carry on as i don't want it too big or spend to much time editing or i may lose it, or someone will reply and think i'm bashing there most favourite of un released games so far....

26th of this month for release, so the race is really on which gives the last few like me only 12 days of testing, lost 2 days to learn already to just even get up to speed, it's fine line tbh and a tight deadline if enough feedback has been given for act 2 and 3, hopes it's do-able i'll put in the hours and try my best

[zakblood]

sound, there seem little difference in the game sound heard so far, music is well i always turn that off if given the option anyway so doesn't really matter to most and never does to me so sorry music maker

while basic it is functional again and does sound like future battle weapon sounds, not that i have heard any in real life to compare either.

but for game play and atmosphere it's ok and plenty usable for a game of this type, again later down this long list you will see why i say the comments i do....

you just need to wait a bit longer...

[zakblood]

now i will go into more detail of game combat and general game play, seen and experience so far.

poor graphics and basic sounds make little difference to game play, so both posts above can now be forgotten for now...

while the tutorials are basic and maybe lack luster atm with no yes it's here and i'm playing it feel to it.

what it does do is give you the very basics of the game play and style of it, from the first few moves i was hooked and couldn't put it down, like a new baby or a kid with a new toy, i had to play it, test it, well mainly play it tbh as i love turn based squad type games, with this being a good one, classic well i'm not so sure atm as i haven't spent enough time playing or testing it, and tbh with the release time scale either , i don't think there will be the time for it either, as the depth and scale of the game is more that the sum of it's parts..

so i repeat the comments above poor graphics and basic sounds make little difference to game play

game play is everything to gamers, you can have the best looking game in the world with great to fantastic sound in it, but if the game mechanics suck, then the game fails, which this does not...



so negative stuff first as always, most which can't be changed with engine used....

graphics, very poor tbh as mentioned above....

music while basic is ok, and sometimes but not always adds to the atmosphere, but most of the time is only ok.

in game universe explaining, well none, so unless the manual explains it all, you will be lost unless you already know the war hammer stuff from elsewhere....

AI at times isn't the greatest, but still time to change that, either slow to attack or if at all in some so far, of poor choice of targets when defending or attacking, doesn't always pick the target you think it should do....

hope you aren't rushing out the game to meet a deadline then will be patching post release, as some of my comments in this thread are pretty basic ones and maybe needed to have been already done by almost release date
as this never goes down well and the negative comments it could get could be counter productive in the longer run, but then again it's only a opinion of a tester, not a publisher / maker etc



positive stuff now

game is fun to play.

plays really well and does combat good.

very easy to pick up and learn.

hex based without really seeing the hex's, i like hex's btw.

stable and looks with the missions and campaigns in the game that it's going to be a long one, and with interest seen so far on the forums a winning idea and concept.

thanks for reading all this, it's honest and now you can comment if you wish, and yes maybe i could have put it all into one post, but it may have been a long one, and yes i may still edit it if it doesn't read write anywhere or i seeing spelling mistakes etc...

ty for the invite and chance to test the game...

[zakblood]

will keep this one free for to days comments as I'll play / test it for a few hours and add some more comments of longer play...

but feel free to flame me now if you don't like the comments

i'm old but honest, and have very broad shoulders so not very easy to offend either...

[vadersson]

I can totally agree about the AI. The Orks are suppose to be agressive close combat fighters in Warhammer 40K. Here they seem a bit timid and static. Not sure how the AI is coded, but that should probably get looked at.

It is interesting to see the perspective of a non 40K person. I know a lot about 40K so that helps I think. I would be curious, based on not knowing the background of the units what you think they are supposed to be used as.

For example, What unit do you expect the be the best Anti-armour units? What do you expect to be good anti-infantry? Just see if your expectations and experience playing match what the warhammer fans expect.

Thanks,
Duncan

[zakblood]

been messing about with the game and editor today, basic it maybe, but easy to use and even easier to mod / alter the inbuilt game files, scenarios etc....

just in case i have done anything wrong, i have deleted / un installed the beta and reinstalled it again and have now finished all the tutorials and feel up to speed with the game atm, so will miss act 1 as that's been tested to death as per guides and go straight into act 2 and 3 for now....

may have to use editor again as I'm not that good a player so will cheat with that instead to see how the missions / campaigns play out before doing it properly, as no comments has been received / posted from above comments, i see they may have gone down like a lead balloon, which is fair enough

did all tutorials with no loss on second play through..

first 2 missions i went defensive also and stayed around the hive base and again had no loss...

have sold all units many times and bought better ones, just to see there use tbh...

so anyway on to act 2 with out delay

i normally cheat my way to the hardest levels, hope that's ok first time , have printed out all the maps from the editor and know where all units are placed anyway as a guide for now....

so with little fanfare off i go with test run thorough play 1, with maps and cheats (ie edited them) as i can't find any listed here atm... so no developer codes to share as without them, time will run out before all are fully tested anyway, just an idea as it's quick play now, proper test tomorrow if i get them all done today

[zakblood]

I can totally agree about the AI. The Orks are suppose to be agressive close combat fighters in Warhammer 40K. Here they seem a bit timid and static. Not sure how the AI is coded, but that should probably get looked at.

It is interesting to see the perspective of a non 40K person. I know a lot about 40K so that helps I think. I would be curious, based on not knowing the background of the units what you think they are supposed to be used as.

For example, What unit do you expect the be the best Anti-armour units? What do you expect to be good anti-infantry? Just see if your expectations and experience playing match what the warhammer fans expect.

Thanks,
Duncan

thanks for the feedback, was in the process of updating a new post so will reply to your now here...

i have no idea tbh of any unit, just guess atm which is good and which aren't so good, play so far has evolved into my getting the troopers with the flag, no idea of name as can't remember but they seem to last the longest, all the rest so far are next to useless it seems and die far too easy so don't buy or use them....

tanks just buy loads of them, best i can afford so tend to buy and sell a lot when better one are out, or upgrade where possible..

and the longest artillery pieces i can afford, which is all tbh as i cheat but won't do it for ever, just need to get a quick play and test and feel of the game as it's only a day one game beta to me, so need to be quick if i am to be of any help at all.... takes to long to play properly and the time is short it seems, so a few quick plays and act 2 and 3 should be gone through once each, then i can sit back and relax and done them both again with notes.... and feedback and look for balance and tactics etc etc

and still have next to no idea what's happening or what are the green skins etc, may Google it or tbh might now as it matter little to this test, which is the only reason for me to be here, as i test more than i play know days

[vadersson]

FYI, If you press V during the mission you automatically win. The Devs told us that and newer testers may not have seen it.

Green skins is a nick name for the Orks used by humans.

I look forward to more reports.
Thanks,
Duncan

[zakblood]

seen the pressing V thing, but in most beta i'm in or have done, they also have developer keys, like cheats for money or resources so you gain quick play, as it will be a tall order to finish all 2 campaigns in the time scale tbh as act 1 doesn't need testing any ore i'm told and concentrate on act 2 and 3 only

[zakblood]

tanks are used like command and conquer type battles, or you can do as i have found out, and buy enough cheaper ones win most stuff on there own, just need to weaken with artillery first and scout with a few other units...

infantry verity in the game is the biggest part so far seen, but also the weakest as in their uses in game, i only use the ones with the flags, the command units and then to only hold stuff...

so up to yet and i'm on the last mission of act 2, it's a tank slugfest battle with lots of losses, but all straight wins...

mind you i have and used all the maps from the editor and know where all their units are and are coming from so have cheated a bit, or somewhat

planes not really used or seen much as yet, so can't comment on there use, helicopters types are very weak and easy to loose so make expensive scouts.

battles seems quite well balanced and have been close run affairs so far, with it almost all going down to the last turn, but then again my unit choices can be slower but take lots of hits per cost etc, plus i can have a lot of them and replace them cheap and easily and it's worked so far, no idea if it will in act 3, but that's for tomorrow...

not done my usual pictures with comments on every turn of battle as i know the time is short, so didn't want to make massive posts of screen shots and my daft tank attacks on mass...

in time i may do a AAR but as time is short i think that also needs to be done with or from a first round tester to do it justice tbh as i may not be able with my game play style used so far do the game justice either as i don't use 70/80% of the units so far in the game...

[zakblood]

while i said above the editor is very basic, same as the graphics used in the game, it's also a little gem for easy of use, and also would make a good selling point as most game now have them, yes, but most don't encourage there use anywhere near as much as they should maybe

i find them a joy to use, and love tinkering about, i see how you design your levels and how you do the scripts etc, which is great, also it good for printing maps off, as it's always nice to have maps, you don't have to print them, i have, but also keep full screen high res copies also stored on the pc for reference use only...

the game will be very easy to mod and alter when released..

while basic is may be, the editor is very stable, very easy to use with no manual or previous experience of using it, so onto day 2 only of the beta as i'm still a newbie here....

but have seen little comments tbh on the editor, in use or about it in general, sorry if i have missed some posts etc and it has been mentioned or it's use is frowned upon here, but as time is short i needed the help, as apart from the V key, which lets be honest doesn't let you play the mission, just give you the win, normally developer cheat codes are sometime given out to beta tester to help them in the game so you can do it all so it's all checked, after reading that there isn't many replies to act 2 and 3 and so close to release, then the few cheats or advantage i have given myself will hopefully pay off, and sorry if you don't like it as maybe i should have asked first, but too late now

[zakblood]

for saying how close to release this is, there doesn't seem to be many commenting or giving feed back, unless they all do it by email / PM's etc, yes its a Sunday and day of rest maybe, but it's deathly quite atm, feel almost ashamed to post as don't seem to want to spam my thoughts only...

so will stay quite for a while now and carry on with act 3 quick play....

[zakblood]

not said much about cut scenes as yet, so will add my comments and thoughts of them seen so far..

just pictures at the moment, no avi ones, no intro at the start so i guess there will be not one once you have finished the campaign?

the storey board / picture types seen so far have been ok, well done yes, but unless you know what they are talking about in the WH 40K universe it really makes little sense and doesn't add to the game or take anything away from it either, so i'm neutral on them atm...

guess there's not much time to alter them now anyway so point is muted..

manual needs to be very good and full of pointers to elsewhere to give more info on the universe of the story being used, as anyone who knows it will say one thing or another, but for those who like me have no idea will be left with a blank look on the face as it doesn't explain much. not that it's meant to either, just an idea and comment for reference reading and to be noted as others will or may say the same thing once released....

i only live up the road where games workshop had there headquarters many years ago, as i'm sure it's no longer there now but did like the little figures that they used to make for all sort of games, this being one of them, but never played it, or ever got into it, just thought i give an idea of what i do and don't know of this type of game and universe it's meant to be in... others may or will have less knowledge and also be left also totally baffled...

well that's it for comments today unless i remember something else of reply to others....

onto act 3, mission 4

[zakblood]

no difficulty to select, is this only with the beta version or the same as the released one

difficulty.jpg (107.94 KiB) Viewed 4114 times

as i see there is an option to change it...

next question or feedback, replay button same as options are greyed out in the beta

any reasons for this

as if like the options one, stuff like screen res can't be tested or altered, you will have no idea if any problem arise

with txt boxes etc etc, just for starters, not counting anything else like dual screens or larger display sizes....

just a thought while i was testing act 3 level 4

[zakblood]

next question is experience,

is there any point in having it in game?

does a unit with max experience get better stuff than not having it eg a new bought unit for example

if you buy a unit in some battles they come with a certain level of exp as seen in my editor shots anyway

does it hit more, take less damage, get more accurate

all things i have no idea of what they do, so while testing i thought i'd ask....

as i sell a lot, most of my units have very little tbh and i always upgrade or buy new stuff each mission it lets me....

can you resurrect dead units? as i see no options for it, with half the exp or what ever

is there a guide somewhere where these have been already answered i need to go off and look, forgive me if there already is, just not had the greatest length of time to test and ask much so reading older posts which may not be now relevant either seemed a waste of time...

thanks

[zakblood]

next question is,why is act 1 so big, when act 2 and 3 are lots smaller? if you add up all the mission you could do in chapter 1, that would be more than 2 and 3 combined

just wondered that's all...

playing / testing liberation of hive tempestorm atm, as last one i'm guessing it's the same as the others but harder, a slugfest of attacks and counter attacks until you or them run out of credits to spend for more reinforcements until one of all are either dead or the objectives are taken....



and last question of the day, is anyone even reading these or I'm i doing something into the wind and watering the daisy's again

[zakblood]

with 1 complete play through now complete, i have a more in depth impression....


still think the graphics are very basic and low end for a modern game.

still have no or little basic understanding of the title war hammer in it's meaning or context, eg the game doesn't give me any real answers to why i'm in battle with orc's or what started the war, or who is the character in the game regarding who's who etc...

its a tank game in its most basic form, a very good one mind you, but in the end that's all it is, like tower defence with out the towers... command and conquer all over again... which isn't a bad idea as i liked that anyway...

unit variate in game is really good, but and it's a big one, the orc's just don't use much of them, they still seem all the way through want to send infantry units against my tanks, yes others may use different types and do worse or better for that matter, but in the end it wasn't hard to finish in a weekend of fast play.... i cared less about casualties and just bought more tanks and just went for the objective no matter what the story was about, as a win is a win...

basic concept and design and map layouts are good, my style doesn't make it very challenging but that's what the test was for, all tank battles aren't much fun if both sides haven't got them, or the same amount of them...

would i buy the game as it is, that's a hard one as it's not really my type of game anyway and the engine isn't the best, the units are not my sort, or the time scale either and tbh i have plenty of this type in the past so tbh and brutally honest at that, it's nothing new, it's an old concept with a old engine, but saying that it's a format that will win, as games like this go down very well...

i applied to test it to help out and that's what i'm doing it for, the game itself matters little to me testing so i apply for everything and anything no matter what, and hope i get in and can help out in any small way...

will it do well on steam and elsewhere?

i think the answer and format you already know, it will do very well as this type of game sell's where as normal war games are only suited to a small few, this has broader appeal so congratulations....

hope my answers are not too rough, or too many poor choice's of words used, it's honest and i think it's a fair comment...

can't say i liked it, or even enjoyed tested it,

what i can say is i loved it, was fun, its free and filled the time up quite nicely

[zakblood]

well act one all played through properly, with only maps used as cheats...

same impression as when i first saw and loaded the game tbh, that's not changed, and maybe never will either...

while the game is very easy to play and enjoy, it's fun but long term it maybe a bit predictable tbh with the AI letting it down for repeat play, so unless online or hot seat picks it up, it will be a short lived game for some, as once played, there is little replay value in it,

as one it doesn't keep scores, so one play is the same as any...

two, there's no difference once you have finished it all, it doesn't like some games unlock a new level, or all the stuff from the ending at the new start so you can try new units, or have the chance to reply all with your own choice of units...

i was thinking of going up to numbers on both hands but see little point...

the game is good, the graphic are poor, the sounds are ok, the campaigns are good, all be it a tad too easy on quite a few levels, and won't give much of a challenge, but said that before so really didn't need to repeat it but just have....

universe eg war hammer i still have no idea what's it's about, so the in game story hasn't given me any real insight into the world of war hammer, in fact it's made me less, as what i have seen i don't understand either, and i have seen the link on here that say read this over at what ever site, which tbh is a bit lame, and will be pulled up on release, unless only war hammer fans buy it, then you open up another can of worms altogether if you haven or haven't been faithful to the universe it's supposed to be built around, as fans can be fickle, more some than steam forum users and buyers, i've seen them in action with games and it's not pretty, so anything that can be done to ease that before release i'd spent the time doing, again not my point to either point it out, or give advice either...

so i'll end on...

it's a good beta, and a good concept, a known winning formula, but, and i hope it's no too big a butt, players don't have to wait a year or years for all the fixes that really should have been in it on day one...

as a good game that could have been a classic will go down as a almost was or could have been type, and yes there has been a few like it...

good luck and not another negative comments i'll give, as it's too late to change it now anyway...

and now onto act 2 real play with 3 being tested fully on Wednesday...

[Kerensky]

You do write quite a bit, so don't expect replies to all of it. Me personally though, I've been reading through and I definitely appreciate your feedback!

I look forward to your input on Act2 and Act3.

P.S. As you mentioned Kryten in another thread, I'd thought I'd mention that Red Dwarf is amazing, did you know they came out with more of it after Season 8 and a 10 year hiatus? I haven't gotten around to watching the 'new' 2009 and 2012 content, but I am curious to see if it's good.

[zakblood]

no dont, if you like the odd or older stuff, then the new wont make you feel any happier, in fact it's poor at best and rubbish in some parts and was a total flop, which is a shame, there far to old for it now, the writing was poor, the acting was wooden and you had the feeling they only did it for the money, and not for the fans...

and thanks for the reply, act 2 and 3 in-depth reviews will be here soon, just hope they are what you want to hear, as so far from what i have seen, act one is not only larger and harder, but also plays better...

short answer is act 2 and 3, aren't as good as 1, but all in all have enjoyed the whole lot, your the level designer then? i guess as you seem to reply more than the developers
as i don't know who is who, not that it matters either, just nosey...

and yes i do write to much, i love to do pictures with comments, as it reminds me f what i was doing when i did it, i play / test a mission and write notes and take screen shots of what i do and what happens and what i see, then later that day where possible i upload them add more that i can remember and try to make it funny, as too much forum reading can be very serious and tbh very boring, so i tend to be light hearted and tongue in cheek, and as it's 5am atm here, sometimes it just doesn't make sense at all and gets a few edits before normal members are even up