The Claudius Cup Elephant Challenge

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:30 pm

The Claudius Cup Elephant Challenge

General Rules (as edited Dec 25 2005, see Formats below)

This tourney will be played in rounds.

In each round, the opponents will "duel" by playing two matches against each other, taking turns to be Side 1 and Side 2 (see Formats below).

Each match will consist of three games, using the 2000D 5000XP settings.

There will be an odd number of players in the tourney. Each round, one player will have a bye.

This bye player has 2 functions. First, he chooses the Format to be used in all matches this round. Second, in the event of a dispute between two active players, the bye player shall be the judge. Such decisions shall be final, and there shall be no appeal. The bye player is *not* required to be neutral or objective in his/her decisions.

Each *game* won earns that player a point.

This means that the winner of a match will always earn 2 points, and the loser may earn 0 or 1. Remember there are two matches in a duel.

Stalemates

Side 1 is always designated as the "attacker". The attacker loses in the event of a stalemate.

A stalemate occurs if 5 minutes go by with no combat. If the defender wishes to exercise this option, he must notify the attacker via chat when he begins the timer, and count down each minute.

Example - "OK, I'm starting the timer now" (60 seconds go by) "That's one minute"

The defender may not invoke this clause while running away.

The defender may not invoke this clause if his only remaining un-routed unit is his leader.

Formats (as edited Dec 25 2005)

There are three different formats possible. In each round, the bye player will choose the format for the active players to use.

All matches in that round will use the designated format

**********

Format A

Side 1 - Romans (always attacker)

Must take at least one Elephant unit.
At least one Elephant must be promoted at least to level 5.

Side 2 - Romans (always defender)

Must take at least one Elephant unit.
At least one Elephant must be promoted at least to level 5.

**********

Format B

Side 1 - Celts (always attacker)

No more than 1800 denarii worth of units.
Must take at least 4 Light Cavalry units.
The other 500 denarii may be spent on equipment.

Side 2 - Romans (always defender)

Must take at least one Elephant unit.
At least one Elephant must be promoted at least to level 5.

**********

Format C

Side 1 - Celts (always attacker)

May not purchase Fanatics, Nobles or Veterans.
May not purchase more than two Warriors units.

Side 2 - Romans (always defender)

Must take at least one Elephant unit.
At least one Elephant must be promoted at least to level 5.

**********

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:36 pm

For format C... what about fanatics? Or is there no limit for those guys?

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:02 pm

Also, how about a requirement to have armies ready beforehand? Everything else will already take quite a while, and army construction can take 20-30 minutes per match.

Does maneveur count as "running away" By this I mean reshuffling ones battle line to meet threats. Because the attacker can circle the troops, trying to attack the skirmishers, and the defender will try to block, and the attacker just keeps rotating.

This is possible when the attacker has, say, three auxila, and the defender has 2 warriors and 2 skirmishers.

Also, is it a total of a 5 minute lull, or can there be two lulls of 4 minutes each?

Because I can see some attacker occasionally, every 4 minutes, throwing light cav in, then withdrawing. Or a defender calling lulls every time the battle lines start to re-adjust. Like: That was a 15 second lull just then, and with the 19 other 15 second lulls, I win.

How about a general time limit instead of lulls- like 15 minutes a battle, timed by the bye player?

After all, it takes perhaps a minute for even the slowest troops to cross.

Of course, we may then have the problem of light cav armies flying all over the map.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:15 pm

An excellent point!

Format C edited to exclude fanatics

OK, Sum1won, and Ehre, you two are hereby drafted to play the in first Tourney. You've been arrested for lewd behavior while drunk at the Emperor's birthday party, and sentenced to fight on Mars Field

I'd like to have a total of 5 or 7 players for the first Tourney. We'll hold open registration from now until Christmas, draw up the schedule on the 26th, and begin play of the first round on the 27th.

Some general comments -

It is fully expected that the players will make full use of rough terrain. Indeed, the Celtic player in Format C has no choice but to do so. The way the Duels are structured, with each consisting of two matches and the players switching sides, will give both sides their turn to bear the onus of attacker.

Obviously, the random choice of maps will introduce a certain element of inequity. War is hell. No whining allowed.

A round will consist of each player (except the bye player) duelling one other player.

For example, if Lavaxxx and Iain signed up, it might look like this - (using names at random)

Round One

Possum plays Lavaxxx
Ehre plays Iain
Sum1won is bye player

Round Two

Sum1won plays Possum
Lavaxxx plays Ehre
Iain is bye player

Round Three

Possum plays Iain
Lavaxxx plays Sum1won
Ehre is bye player

Round Four

Possum plays Ehre
Iain plays Sum1won
Lavaxxx is bye player

Round Five

Lavaxxx plays Iain
Ehre plays Sum1won
Possum is bye player

This works out so -

Possum plays - Lava, Sum1, Iain, Ehre, (bye)
Lava plays - Possum, Ehre, Sum1, (bye), Iain
Ehre plays - Iain, Lava, (bye), Possum, Sum1
Iain plays -Ehre, (bye), Possum, Sum1, Lava
Sum1 plays -(bye), Possum, Lava, Iain, Ehre

Whew, schedules are complicated!

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:23 pm

sum1won wrote:Also, how about a requirement to have armies ready beforehand? Everything else will already take quite a while, and army construction can take 20-30 minutes per match.

Does maneveur count as "running away" By this I mean reshuffling ones battle line to meet threats. Because the attacker can circle the troops, trying to attack the skirmishers, and the defender will try to block, and the attacker just keeps rotating.

This is possible when the attacker has, say, three auxila, and the defender has 2 warriors and 2 skirmishers.

Also, is it a total of a 5 minute lull, or can there be two lulls of 4 minutes each?

Because I can see some attacker occasionally, every 4 minutes, throwing light cav in, then withdrawing. Or a defender calling lulls every time the battle lines start to re-adjust. Like: That was a 15 second lull just then, and with the 19 other 15 second lulls, I win.

How about a general time limit instead of lulls- like 15 minutes a battle, timed by the bye player?

After all, it takes perhaps a minute for even the slowest troops to cross.

Of course, we may then have the problem of light cav armies flying all over the map.

Having armies ready beforehand is a good idea. I don't think making it an absolute requirement is a good idea, lest we discourage people too much. Obviously the general who has planned his army at leisure has an advantage over one who threw his together in a hurry.

Avoiding contact is running away.

Five continous minutes. Not cumulative. And we both know light cavalry can take terrible casualties trying to disengage.

Having the bye player time the match just isn't practical, I fear.

The bye player can judge any disputes. And I think we generally have a pretty high standard of good sportsmanship in this little community

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:27 pm

Sounds good guys

Let us know the results if you get this going & we'll post them to the web site

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:29 pm

if?

IF?

IF?

Oh, ye of little faith!

ehre · Post by **ehre** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:57 pm

im in

okiotheman · Post by **okiotheman** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:02 pm

I'm to have an elephant unit?

I want to participate but when would be a good time?

Anyway, I'm willing to be a guinea pig or whatever lab animal you want.

Romans will win...

jdm · Post by **jdm** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:28 pm

Let me know when and I will have a bash

)

JDM

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:44 pm

Im in if I have time later tonight

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:45 pm

Okio and JDM, Excellent!

Just have a careful look at the three "Formats" above, and get to work designing your armies.

There are really only three different designs needed

1. A Roman army - for either Side in Format A, or Side 1 in Format B or C.

2. A Celtic army for Format B.

3. A Celtic army for Format C.

I'll have a final schedule posted soon and we'll start playing Rounds. A Round may well take 2 or 3 days, depending on how long it takes people to arrange a meet with their opponent.

OK, that's five contestants, any more takers?

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:55 pm

Im thinking that this might be nice for other people, as it makes the withdraw option much less viable. Being able to do so with the rmans is virtually suicide, and the celts just cant, really.

Oh, and Ehre...

The French have won wars. Well, the Gauls did. Does that count?

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:45 am

Have you ever tried using Withdraw with an Elephant?

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:07 am

Okio just did that to me... We tried one format c match to get the hang of it. There were some really weird occurances. For one thing, the elephants successfully withdrew from the skirmishers. More impressivly... An elephant was trampled. By a lvl 2 unit of skirmishers. Look at this link:
http://screenshot.xfire.com/xf/screensh ... a373aa.png

Impressive, no?

Finally, a unit of archers routed his elephants in the first 10 seconds of the second battle with 3 volleys, annihalating 4 elephants. The odds of this are really, really low.

The first battle I got beat, second battle I wore away his support with a bunch of light cavalry and javelins and militia, before very slowly destroying his elephants with my warrior units. The third was absurd, with the archers slaughtering the elephants, then hurting his auxila. The massive horde of militia and javelins crushed the remaining auxila- my warriors didnt actually do anything this time.

I suggest formats A or B if you dont want to take a few eternities. C can really take a long time.

okiotheman · Post by **okiotheman** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:11 am

possum wrote:Have you ever tried using Withdraw with an Elephant?

Yes, I did. I just played sum1one three(3) games.
I was the Romans with a level 5 elephant unit, plus 2 level 4 Auxiliries, 1 scout, 1 archer and Legate.

I won the first game by using the withdraw and then using the stop button... very effective in getting those pesky skirmishers out of the scrub into the open. This game lasted about 20 minutes.

The second game I lost because of not supporting my elephants and my Legate has a tendency to die very quickly.

The third game lasted approximately 5-7 minutes. My elephants routed with only 2 losses. Of course my Legate die very quickly there after.

The Celts archers were actually killing my elephants very quickly, especially in the last game. Oh well it was fun... At least sum1won had to play me 3 games..

.

Great job, sum1won in adjusting to the elephants.

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:35 am

I was thinking that after this we could have a different challenge: Some kinda phalanx challenge. Units are limited to light cav, spearmen, triarri, javelin men.... Who knows? (NO ELEPHANTS!)

This would be an interesting kinda battle, with more anvils then meat-grinders.

Perhaps the Celts could use a unit of warriors if the romans get triarii.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:37 am

Sum1, sounds great!

When we're done with this Cup, you can set up the next one, and we'll have some experience at it by then

Okio, sounds fun, thanks for the report. How many Archers did Sum1 have?

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:54 am

Hi guys,

With the holidays looming this is going to be difficult for me (I work in the tourist industry), so sorry, I'll have to give it a pass.

BTW, hopefully, now that the game has been released in the US, we'll be soon seeing some new people joining the forum and mulitiplayer.

Ray (alias Lava)

okiotheman · Post by **okiotheman** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:38 pm

possum wrote:Sum1, sounds great!

When we're done with this Cup, you can set up the next one, and we'll have some experience at it by then

Okio, sounds fun, thanks for the report. How many Archers did Sum1 have?

sum1won had one(1) archer unit. It did not even have Anti-elephant either.