epic Armageddon and Warhammer 40K Armageddon weapons

[vadersson]

A log would be good to have. I will look for that.

I compiled a small spreadsheet last night (I had limited time.) I have been comparing 40K weapon stats vs the Beta. Two things have jumped out so far:

1. The Range interpretation is pretty accurate. I am very pleased by this. In general 12" = range 1, 24" = range 2, 48" = Range 3 and 72" = range 4. I still need to get more data and there are a few outliars

2. The penetration values are way off. Some high AP guns from 40K have 0% penetration in the Beta. Other things with very low penetration get a good amount of pen in the game. I really think this needs looked at.

Of course all this if from data screens in the game. I have only gotten 35 of the more basic weapons to review thus far. Once I mine more data I will update.

Thanks,
Duncan

[Rudankort]

Hi Duncan! All weapons stats are located in game's folder, in Data/weapons.whdat. If you have Microsoft Excel, you can open this file as a spreadsheet: it is a tab-separated text file. Maybe some other spreadsheet applications can open this file too.

[Kerensky]

Many adjustments had to be made for balance reasons, but if you would like to compile a detailed and documented list I would not be adverse to going through it and seeing if we tweak a few items.

[vadersson]

Already working on it Kerensky. Rudankort pointing out those files helped a ton. Now I am searching through books to find the right data from 40K. You guys pulled stuff from all over. VERY impressive. I hope to get to see what you can do with Tau someday.

I figured some changes might be for balance, but if they are too far out it will bother the 40K fans. (Like Lascannons having 0 armour piercing.) Once I work up my spreadsheet I will send it to you.

In the meanwhile, I will post any major concerns here for discussion. Thank you for including us in the beta. We all just want the game to be the best it can be.

Thanks,
Duncan

[Galdred]

I think using epic values for range, and 40K values for AP, and strength would make more sense, because 40K is more "accurate" than epic, but the battlefields being much smaller, range does not always play a very important role.

[vadersson]

If anyone can send me Epic range data I will be glad to compare that too. So far it appears that range is kind of a power function. If it were straight, each hex would be about 12", however starting at 3 and 4 the distance becomes a bit less. Then more compressed at the upper ends. Still working through it all. For the most part if looks good on range, maybe a half dozen I think should change.

Thanks,
Duncan

[thepuffin]

Part of the reason the ranges feel so odd is due to the huge distances that units are capable of moving each turn. Infantry on foot are looking at making a 36"+ move each turn (and then also being able to fire!). This will make most of the weapons feel homogeneous because you are not actually making the sort of decisions you should be making due to distance. Furthermore, it makes assault far more devastating and means it can't really be balanced the way it should be (i.e. an orc warband will slaughter imperial guard in close combat without a second thought, but the trick for the orcs is that they have to survive a withering gunline to get there).

[vadersson]

Part of the reason the ranges feel so odd is due to the huge distances that units are capable of moving each turn. Infantry on foot are looking at making a 36"+ move each turn (and then also being able to fire!). This will make most of the weapons feel homogeneous because you are not actually making the sort of decisions you should be making due to distance. Furthermore, it makes assault far more devastating and means it can't really be balanced the way it should be (i.e. an orc warband will slaughter imperial guard in close combat without a second thought, but the trick for the orcs is that they have to survive a withering gunline to get there).

Hmm, very good points. I had not considered that when looking at things. Given the normal Inf move in 40K is 6", that is a big change. Well I guess we use what we have for now. I wonder what they game would be like if the weapons had like 15 hex ranges...

I WISH there could be an accurate 40K computer game, but I doubt GW would sell as many minis then.

Food for thought here. Thanks for the great insights.

Thanks,
Duncan