Joining an existing combat

[switze01]

Hi

Last night I had a situation like this

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cc a = roman auxilia e= Sassanid elephants c=roman cavalry

Sassanid elephants are in contact with first roman auxilia and fighting a melee.
The melee is then joined by the other roman auxilia we assumed the must join and the one on the end fights as an overlap like the existing overlap
its not an Impact phase its just a join the melee for the next melee phase
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cc

Then the roman cavalry want to charge the Sassanid elephant in the rear .
Couldn't work this one out .. it almost looked like they couldn't join the melee at all
In the end I let him charge and disorder the elephants and then when we fought the melee phase
the elephant had 3 dice (I off for disorder) the cav 3 (I off for elephant disorder) and 8
from the auxilia but I dunno if this was right
here is the final position
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cc
With 11 dice versus 3 I was stuffed but I don't know if this is correct as I found it difficult
to interpret the 'joining an existing melee' rules especially regarding new units
Can some kind person please clarify this ?

Thanks in advance

Steve

[switze01]

Hi

Just to clarify the editor of this has moved the rear auxilia
it should be behind and to the right of the front auxilia with
one of the elephant stands in front of it
The cav original position was to the rear and the right as
it couldn't reach to charge into the rear until a turn after
the auxilia joins the existing melee ...

Thx

Steve

[grahambriggs]

So trying to work out what the position actually was...is this right?








and are roman auxilia facing down. I couldn't quite understand where the aux are per your example.

are sassanid elephants facing up

are roman cavalry facing up

is a space

So, dealine with the Aux first. If both units are in front of the elephants as shown the only way to get them in is a charge. In the melee, they'll overlap the elephants on both ends so get 8 dice if steady.

But if it were more like:






Then fights the elephants on their own at overlap and then in the Roman turn can move up and get a file in as overlap (so 6 dice in all if steady)


In terms of the cavalry charging the rear of the elephants. The oddity here is that if both elephant bases are fighting to their front, you don't turn the bases but you fight the impact as if they have turned. So the disordered cavalry start with 4 dice, lose one due to disorder but will fight on a ++ POA. The elephants start with 6, the rear charge disrupts them so they'll get 4 dice on a --POA

In the melee, the elephants will have four dice (if they're only disrupted) and count as facing in two directions. They have to fight one dice at least against the cavalry, and if they are in front edge contact with both aux at least one dice againt each - they'll chose where to put the last one. The cavalry will get three dice.

So the elephants will have 4 dice against 9 or 11. POAs will probably be even. Elephants are in real trouble.

[switze01]

Right so we did it correctly ...but in the combat I had 1 elephant and 1 aux facing each other initially while the other auxilia was back a bit
and facing the other auxilia stand (auxila was one stand behind the other ) .
Now will the other auxilia just join the melee during the manoeuvre phase or charge in frontally (I assumed it wouldn't as it would be joining
an existing melee) or would the existing auxilia have to expand to engage the elephants both frontally and then the auxilia would move up
and provide an overlap.
From your comment about the cav I guess charging into the rear doesn't count as joining an existing melee

One more thing we ended up like this ..

ar aaaa
ar ee
cc

Basically iwas about move the Sassanid archers (ar)into the flank of the
roman auxilia(a) would that have been a charge of a join an existing melee

Thx

Steve

[switze01]

ar aaaa
ar ee
cc

Here is a better diag is a space

[grahambriggs]

I'm assuming these are two different battle goups of auxila - yes?

So, if the elephants have one base in frontal contact with one Auxilia battle group then the other base would be eligible to fight as overlap against that same BG.

If the second auxilia BG want to fight the elephant base which has a clear front edge it will have to charge it. BGs normally get into combat by charging. You are allowed to move to an overlap position in the movement phase but not into front edge to front edge contact with a fresh battle group.

If, on the other hand this were a single battle group of 8 bases of auxilia itis slightly different. So in such circumstance you might fight an impact in this formation (each face represents one base or space):






In the melee phase, if no bases moved, the bases in frontal combeat fight, the bases in ovelap fight and MF can fight the second rank so you end up with 2 elephant bases with 2 dice each vs 4 Aux bases with 1 die each.

The Auxilia though get the option to feed in a file to match the overlap, as they have bases that would not otherwise fight. So they move a file across to be:





So now it's 4 elephant dice against 6 Auxilia dice

[switze01]

Hi

Think I got my ideas confused reference this.
I got the idea that you couldn't charge into a unit already in melee DOH
So in fact you can or you can move into an overlap
during manoeuvre

Thx

Steve