17th Century Infantry reacting to Cavalry

[Champagne_Tiger]

I've played a bit of the board game called Under the Lily Banners, which is about 17th century land war on the continent. In that game, infantry directly threatened by cavalry go into a "hedge hog" formation of all around pikes that makes them immune to cavalry but extra vulnerable to Shot. Infantry in hedge hog cannot fire at enemy units.

How is this infantry behavior modeled in Pike and Shot?

[NickDirlewanger]

I've played a bit of the board game called Under the Lily Banners, which is about 17th century land war on the continent. In that game, infantry directly threatened by cavalry go into a "hedge hog" formation of all around pikes that makes them immune to cavalry but extra vulnerable to Shot. Infantry in hedge hog cannot fire at enemy units.

How is this infantry behavior modeled in Pike and Shot?

I don't think it's right behavior. In the battle of Marignano French gendarmes successfully fought against Swiss pikemen (so no immunity). An the same time hedgehog of 17 century can't be more vulnerable to shot - look at images if landsknecht batallias or Spanish tercios - they are more or less square themselves, even in regular combat formation.

More vulnerable for shooting (especially for artillery) infantry squares it's 18 and 19 centuries when line become regular battle formation.

[rbodleyscott]

The earlier deep formations such as Keils, Early and Later Tercios are assumed to be able to form up so as to face off flank attacks automatically (and early tercios also rear attacks).

However, the later shallower formations, though more efficient in terms of application of firepower, were not good at forming all round defensive formations. On the few occasions they were recorded as holding out when attacked from multiple sides, they tended to be in enclosures, so were able to make use of obstacles. (e.g. Newcastle's Whitecoats at the Battle of Marston Moor).

It does seem logical that they should be able to form all round defensive formations, but in practice the later more linear units were very vulnerable to cavalry except frontally. This may have been because the ratio of musketeers to pikemen was now so high that it was impossible for the musketeers to shelter among the pikes if the enemy came from more than one direction. This of course changed later once all musketeers had bayonets (particularly socket bayonets) and could thus form part of the wall of the square themselves.

[panzeh]

The need to begin a turn in the flank/rear of a unit(which gives a p&s unit time to react) I think gives them more than enough flexibility to avoid a flank charge by turning to face the flanker.

[Champagne_Tiger]

Thanks for the responses.

The game is quite ambitious in its scope. It's wonderful to see battles modeled from the late 1400s all the way to Rocroi in 1643. There was significant evolution in tactical warfare and infantry formations during the 200 years from 1450 to 1650.

I am very glad to know that thoughtful and and informed minds are involved in the work to make Pike and Shot as fine a conflict simulation as is practicable.