Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by McGuba »

Ceek wrote:The air war that wasn't. While three fighters have been kept from assisting the Eastern front, they have not been significantly taxed by the Allied air force. For the most part, their bombers are not interested in the cities, but attack fortifications and radar stations. I have only had three allied bombers ever end their turns above objective cities.
Probably this is the biggest issue currently. Some of the guys here warned me not to implement the air war as the Allied air forces would cause too many prestige penalty and/or too many German fighters would be needed to counter them and then those could not be used on the "more important" Eastern Front. And now it seems that the Allied efforts are next to utterly ineffective. :( As I see there are two problems here:

1. Allied Air forces are not strong enough over Western Europe in 1942-43. This could be easily changed by adding more and/or more experienced and better Allied aircraft. However, it would force the player to deploy even more Axis fighters to the area, which would mean less fighters to support the Eastern offensives. Historically, as I understand, in 1941-1942 a relatively low number of German fighter units could hold the Allies at bay, causing heavy losses to the unescorted bombers. While the British could make several much hyped "thousand bomber raids" in which (nearly) one thousand night bombers attacked the same night, that intensity could not be sustained for long. In 1943, with the arrival of the USAAF things had started to change as both air forces could attack with 600-800 heavy bombers day and night. Consequently, the Germans were forced to allocate more and more fighters for the defense of the Reich, and thus Allied losses continued to remain high, mainly due to the lack of a long range fighter escort. And most of those German fighters were transfered from the Eastern Front. Even then, they could not stop the Allies from literally destroying Hamburg and some other cities. And then, in 1944 the Luftwaffe deployed some 1000 interceptors for the defense of Germany, which meant about half of all the available fighter strenght. And even those were unable to protect the cities and to prevent the D-day landing and were eventually defeated.

In game terms, I think if the player is able to defend Germany with 3-4 fighters in 1941-42 then it is quite all right. However, in 1943 he would need to deploy some more fighters to achieve the same success. And from 1944 onwards the successful defense of Germany should require just about all of the available German fighters (8-10), which obviously means there could be no fighters deployed to the Eastern Front any longer.

2. Allied strategic bombers do not attack victory objectives, even though they would have to. This is a harder nut to crack as it seems that even if an AI unit is set to "patrol" or "move to" zone x (the victory objective cities), if there is a visible and juicy target within their movement range they prefer to attack it instead of moving on against their designated zone (target city). Which is not good. On the other hand, when it comes to Allied bombers patroling the North Atlantic convoy routes it is a desirable AI behaviour as those bombers are more than happy to attack any visible U-boats instead of just patroling their zone. However, in the target reach area of Western Europe they would never reach their objectives as there is always another target of opporturnity for them. And thus the player has plenty of time to destroy the bombers. So all I could do here is to somewhat reduce the number of those juicy targets in the area, i.e. mainly fortifications and radar stations, and hope that at least some bombers would get through as a result. Also, and it is in connetion with problem no. 1., if there are more bombers attacking at the same time, while some would continue to go for those targets of opportunity, others might get through as there would be no more visible targets for them.

1. Prestige bonuses for capturing Stalingrad and the Caucasus Oil Fields never fired!
Thanks for this report, the bonus for the Caucasus somehow became bugged, so I have fixed it. However, there was no bonus for Stalingrad in any of the previous versions, and even the in-game message box says: "Our analisys shows that the key for the defeat of the Soviet Union lies in the capture of its main industrial and political centers. We believe that if we manage to capture and hold the Caucasus, Moscow and Leningrad, it will deliver a fatal blow to their war economy, virtually ending their capability to produce and field new units..." The reason for doing so is very simple: I have no more free AI zone that I could assign to Stalingrad. And basically all AI scripts, such as giving bonus or penalty, are based on AI zones. :( Also, as I understand historically the capture of Stalingrad was not so important, it was only set as an objective in order protect the northern flank of Army Group A which was going to the Caucasus, which, in turn, was the main objective of the whole operation. And Stalingrad had only become more and more important during the long siege as it was named after the Soviet dictator and hence both dictators were determined to hold it at all cost.

2. Victory objectives in the Middle East currently only award 50 prestige.
Oh, I have just realized that secondary objectives give only 50 prestige instead of 150. And for some reason I made those objectives secondary ones instead of primary. So I should have to provide some explanation in the game. I think it makes sense that the player gets less prestige for the capture of those relatively lightly defended desert cities than for cities like Kiev or Minsk. However, I make those Russian cities in the hinterland primary (Archangelsk, Petrozhavodsk). Anyway, just capture all objectives and that's it. :wink:
3. Did you elect against giving the player a fighter reinforcement? I lost one early on in the West and didn't get a replacement.
There is such a fighter, but it only appears if the player loses more fighters, I guess. So I have changed the counter a bit, so the player would get a reinforcement fighter after losing one or two (depending on the time it happens) fighters.
1. Taking Leningrad is still too easy and determines the rest of the campaign.
As Leningrad has its own AI zone, I could give a penalty for the player for using the Finns in the direct assault on the city. From a historical point of view it would really make sense as Mannerheim made it clear that the Finns would not take part in the siege of the city, and it happened exactly like that. On the other hand, it would make a smart player to use all the Finn units elsewhere to circumnavigate this restriction. So I would rather opt not to do so.
Instead of losing all their reinforcements in the north, maybe it's just reduced to infantry and artillery and they have to come from further north (Archangelsk)?
I think there should be some units trying to lift the siege, once the Axis takes the first flag. Also, after the capture of the city there could be some, but not too many units trying to recapture it.
2. I understand why the El Alamein reinforcements don't fire if you capture Tobruk quickly enough. However, rather than make these reinforcements disappear, I think they should simply be moved to Cairo and the Suez.
In this case it is not that they disappear, but rather they do not even appear. Again, due to game mechanincs - lack of AI zones. But, what I could do here is to add some extra British units if the Axis capture Cairo "too early", to substitute for the lack of those later reinforcements. The trick here, is that those "early" reinforcements should have earlier equipment too, as the US Grant and Sherman tanks only arrived late 1942. I am also thinking about some more randomness in the Middle East which would indeed be nice, but without AI zones I cannot do much about it.
4. Russian reinforcements are pretty predictable in how they get vectored to the front. They never come from the northern or southern extremes of the front, making it easy to concentrate my forces in the center.
It is a difficult problem. AI units on the attack always move towards the nearest enemy victory objective. On smaller maps it is quite all right and managable, but on a large map like this it is not. For example, if the player captures Archangelsk in the far north with just a few Finn units, from that time all new Soviet ground units would try to recapture that city as that would be the closest objective to their spawing point in the Ural. And they would indeed recapture it with overwhelming power, but in the meantime they would simply forget about some other "minor" objectives like Moscow or the Caucasus. And after that all those units would be trapped in the dense woodland of the north. And the same would happen if the player captures the Caucasus and decides to move on to the Middle East, leaving only a few units to defend the Caucasus. Thus I have decided to "send" all new Soviet reinforcements to the middle of the map and only when they reach it they are set to attack the nearest Axis held objective. What I can do here to make everyone happy is to set some Soviet units to attack right after they spawn, but not all. This would fit in well with your other request: " My only suggestion is to make this level of managed randomness a part of the Middle East and Eastern Front battles as well (see above for specifics)." Also, if there were more AI zones, I could add even more randomness to the mod, e.g. British desert rats patroling the Middle East and North Africa and such. But, the limited number of AI zones (32) is a great restriction.

6. I think there should be "last ditch" defense triggers that should fire if/when the Axis player captures a major objective in the East (e.g., Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad).
I have added such a ditch to v1.4 in case the player captures a part of the Caucasus (a few Soviet units try to recapture it), did it work? I could make the same with Moscow and Leningrad as they have an AI zone. However, as I stated above Stalingrad has no AI zone so I cannot do that with that city at the moment. Other than that I like the idea.

EDIT:
I have accidentally found another bug: until now the player was given penalty for the partisan attacks a maximum of three times as I forgot to set the run counter... So starting with the next release it should happen more often...
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BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

McGuba wrote:if there is a visible and juicy target within their movement range
OK. To fix this, just demolish all of the fruit juice factories. Then the AI should behave as planned.

Also, when is Battlefield: Pacific going to be made?

- BNC
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hugh2711
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by hugh2711 »

a few things;
[on level 2 AI, rank general]

1) I had ufa (159,20) and the adjacent airstrip a few turns earlier. at the end of turn 67 there were no russian units anywhere near (nearest 8 hexes). after pressing the end turn button 4 infantry units and one tank (and a bomber overhead) unit appeared around it/my unit occupying the town and proceeded to destroy my unit. How could they spawn if they dont have/have not had for a couple of goes that town and airstrip near it?. I also had another town and adjacent airstrip to the north west of there with no problems.

2) Is there a physical limit of 99 turns built into the game/code?

I had 4 out of 5 oil fields and the fifth within easy reach and take in a couple of turns.
I had large chunks of russia and only 1 enemy unit left in normandy.
The uk threat had been largely neutered.
I also had air superiority despite the tougher 1.4 v 1.3.
I was just building up my units/strength.
The machine said 'draw' but given more time getting all of it would be no problem (except i am terrible at invasions :-).

3) If you do the other two scenarios before do you get a core to import to the big one?, is the big one stand-alone.

4) when looking at the list of user-made campaigns. I get a load of them instead of just one 'battlefield europe'. I get the big 99 turn one is listed as the one about "citadel". Is this correct or is my installation wrong?.

5) leningrad looks impossible to me! :-) A long term strategy of avoiding head on battles of attrition, sneaking over the black sea to get the oil fields and grabbing iceland to disrupt the uk seems to work well.

thanks for info.

Out of all the campaigns, vanilla game, dlc etc this is my favourite scenario!!. great job.
BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

hugh2711 wrote:2) Is there a physical limit of 99 turns built into the game/code?
Nope. War of the World worked with 107 turns. The only problem is that it shows turn 28/107 as (with 47273 prestige) :

28 / 07 47273

which can be a bit confusing at times.

- BNC
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Ceek
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Ceek »

I am nearly to the end of my scenario, and I'm looking forward to writing some more feedback soon. One question I had in the meantime is where is the promised late '42 scenario start date (save file)? I would like to try my hand at starting in a disadvantaged position and see if I can pull off the impossible.
Uhu
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Uhu »

I can provide one. But it is on Rommel level... :lol:
On the other hand, if it's a problem, you can always double the prestige awards with cheat (Rommel = Field Marshal with prestige/2).
Ceek wrote:I am nearly to the end of my scenario, and I'm looking forward to writing some more feedback soon. One question I had in the meantime is where is the promised late '42 scenario start date (save file)? I would like to try my hand at starting in a disadvantaged position and see if I can pull off the impossible.
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Ceek
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Ceek »

Hah, OK. Let me give Rommel another shot. :)
Uhu
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Uhu »

Hmm. I forgot, that I use an own eqp file (+ many icons). The problem is not, that several stats differ, but that I forgot to implement some changes in my own 1.4 eqp file... Not much: in 1945 just Volkssturm, in-family upgrade possibility for German guns (I used cheat to recreate the real price).
Well, use it, if you want. I publish the eqp file too (hopefully efx is not needed) . There should be no missing icons, but it's better to check it. Hmm, the German Bridge Engineers 3-way looking icons is surely needed - here they are too.
Hint: there were already built some extra defense lines, so it should be not so hard to fend off the Soviet onslaught... :wink:
Oh, and you have +2 extra fighters and +2 extra 150mm arty (bought for sold core inf in the first three scenarios).
http://panzercorpsmods.wordpress.com/20 ... late-1942/
Ceek wrote:Hah, OK. Let me give Rommel another shot. :)
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Ceek
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Ceek »

Thanks, but both links point to the efx file.
Uhu
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Uhu »

Fixed. Somehow wordpress mixed the two links together.
Ceek wrote:Thanks, but both links point to the efx file.
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by McGuba »

BiteNibbleChomp wrote:Also, when is Battlefield: Pacific going to be made?
Currently I work on v1.5, after that I would like to finally update my previous Hungarian campaign. After that I might take a break from modding and/or try to make the allied version of this mod. Also, PzC is not very well suited for the Pacific theatre, it would need some new features added à la Pacific General.
hugh2711 wrote:a few things;
[on level 2 AI, rank general]

1) I had ufa (159,20) and the adjacent airstrip a few turns earlier. at the end of turn 67 there were no russian units anywhere near (nearest 8 hexes). after pressing the end turn button 4 infantry units and one tank (and a bomber overhead) unit appeared around it/my unit occupying the town and proceeded to destroy my unit. How could they spawn if they dont have/have not had for a couple of goes that town and airstrip near it?. I also had another town and adjacent airstrip to the north west of there with no problems.
Well, you happened to reach the Ural mountains, were the Soviet reinforcements are being spawned. The player's task is to capture the designated victory objective cities, and not those ones. Otherwise it would be a bit too easy to beat the scenario by taking the cities in the Ural first and just avoid those major objectives like Moscow and Leningrad and thus deprive the Soviets of all their reinforcements. It would be rather unhistorical, IMO. I should have mentioned it in one of the docs though, so probably I will do so in the next version.

2) Is there a physical limit of 99 turns built into the game/code?
No, but e.g. turn 112 would be displayed as turn 12 on the UI as there are only two digits and so would not look very professional. Also, turn 99 is July 2, 1945 and the a-bomb was basically ready by then, so I think it is good to end the war around that time, on the eve of the atomic age.

I had 4 out of 5 oil fields and the fifth within easy reach and take in a couple of turns.
I had large chunks of russia and only 1 enemy unit left in normandy.
...
The machine said 'draw' but given more time getting all of it would be no problem (except i am terrible at invasions :-).
So maybe you can consider it as a victory, however, as I mentioned above the first a-bomb test happened on July 16, 1945, which would be turn 100. And the US was ready to nuke Germany: "President Roosevelt instructed Groves that if the atomic bombs were ready before the war with Germany ended, he should be ready to drop them on Germany." (wiki, Manhattan Project). So I think it is better to arrange a draw for Germany in turn 99, than an unconditional surrender in turn 101 or 102 (August 6-9, 1945)... :|
3) If you do the other two scenarios before do you get a core to import to the big one?, is the big one stand-alone.
There are three scenarios before the big one: Poland, France and the Mediterranean (Balkans and North Afirca). The core units from those can be taken over to the big sceanrio, and if the player is good enough in those he can start Barbarossa with a little extra prestige.

4) when looking at the list of user-made campaigns. I get a load of them instead of just one 'battlefield europe'. I get the big 99 turn one is listed as the one about "citadel". Is this correct or is my installation wrong?.
If installed well, you should see this modified main campaign start screen:

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from where you can start the mod at any year between 1939-41 and play until 1945.

5) leningrad looks impossible to me! :-)
and, a bit earlier by ceek:
ceek wrote:1. Taking Leningrad is still too easy and determines the rest of the campaign.
It clearly shows how hard it is to set the difficulty of a mod (or game) correctly. :roll:

Maybe our friend ceek could give us a few tips on how to capture Leningrad easily? :wink:

From my side I can only suggest using the Ju-87 with the hero (Rudel) to sink the Soviet battleship near the city (Rudel was indeed credited with the sinking of the Battleship Marat) as soon as feasable, and taking the heavy artillery Kar-Gerät up to Leningrad by train (as it was indeed taken there). As an unhistorical change, I also like to take that heavy artillery across the Gulf of Finland to the Finnish area and then use it from the north against the heavy fortress near the city. Then it is basically just a matter of time and enough Axis artillery and elite infantry.
A long term strategy of avoiding head on battles of attrition, sneaking over the black sea to get the oil fields and grabbing iceland to disrupt the uk seems to work well.

thanks for info.
It sounds very interesting. I am very happy that different people come up with different strategies, e.g. others prefer to take Cyprus or Gibraltar, but you took Iceland, which is also an interesting idea (and, if I am right, it was indeed considered by the Germans at some point). There is not just one possible winning strategy. :D

Out of all the campaigns, vanilla game, dlc etc this is my favourite scenario!!. great job.
Thanks, I also found the vanilla campaigns a bit dull and unhistorical, and that's why I started modding in the first place.

Ceek wrote:I am nearly to the end of my scenario, and I'm looking forward to writing some more feedback soon.
Can't wait to learn more. :D
One question I had in the meantime is where is the promised late '42 scenario start date (save file)? I would like to try my hand at starting in a disadvantaged position and see if I can pull off the impossible.
Well, yeah, the thing is that you guys are well ahead of me in testing as I could only get to turn 7-8 in v1.4 :twisted: , and since I am on my well deserved holiday I do not have the time to continue any further. Thus there will be no 'official' 42 starting savegame for v1.4, I am afraid. Mainly because I have already been working on v1.5 which will hopefully fix some more issues, like the missing air war. In the meantime I made some more research in the subject and found that the Western Allies should have considerably more air units on the map at the current scale of the mod. From v1.5 a German air unit will represent a historical Geschwader (with historical name), the equivalent of a US aviation wing or a British air force group, with 100-150 aircraft. And I will set the maximum number of British and American air units (air wings and groups) possibly appearing on the map according to their historical numbers. Which, in effect means about two times more Western Allied air units in v1.5 from 1943. :shock:

Interestingly enough, I came to the same conclusion as the British Bomber Command: you wrote that you could hunt down the Western strategic bombers one by one, with no problem, just as the German fighters did during 1940-41, so the solution might be the introduction of the so-called 'bomber stream': not just one or two, but several bombers appearing on the map in the same turn and heading towards Germany all together. In that way, even if the player can destroy some of them, at least a few of the bombers should get through. I will try to simulate the main Allied bombing campaigns such as the 'thousand bomber raids', the Battle of the Ruhr, or the 'Big Week'.

The bomber will always get through. :twisted:

So I will try to make some disadvantaged historical savegames for the next, v1.5 version, when it is ready. Until then you can try Uhu's savegame, if you do not want to wait.
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hs1611
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by hs1611 »

McGuba wrote:Currently I work on v1.5, after that I would like to finally update my previous Hungarian campaign. After that I might take a break from modding and/or try to make the allied version of this mod. Also, PzC is not very well suited for the Pacific theatre, it would need some new features added à la Pacific General.
Yes, please take a break and play some WWI mods, if you can find any.
It will make You Know Who happy!
BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

hs1611 wrote:
McGuba wrote:Currently I work on v1.5, after that I would like to finally update my previous Hungarian campaign. After that I might take a break from modding and/or try to make the allied version of this mod. Also, PzC is not very well suited for the Pacific theatre, it would need some new features added à la Pacific General.
Yes, please take a break and play some WWI mods, if you can find any.
It will make You Know Who happy!
:D

- BNC
Ryan O'Shea - Developer - Strategic Command American Civil War
Delta66
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Delta66 »

Finally I find to play BE 1.4.
I play on Rommel, which make prestige pretty low. I think started Barbarossa with around 1500pp after purchase.
I still have some lousy Pz IIC in the frontline
I'm on turn 19, And have captured Malta, Leningrad and Rostov and I'm just behind the Don river.
Not yet much to report about the Air War over Germany has it just started. I upgraded a pair of Bf 109 to Fw 190, as the Bf 109 can't survive on the western front.

I have captured Leningrad on turn 16 and the frontline, which is continuous in this area is a bit to the east, However 1 Soviet SMG infantry poped out of nowhere (I reloaded and lifted the FoW just to be sure) just in the middle of my troops refitting in Leningrad. Out of curiosity I reloaded my previous save, and then the Soviet SMG didn't appeared but it appeared the following turn in a similar fashion.
I wonder if this is a feature or a B..

Leningrad is harder to take, but somehow I improved my tactics in this area, and I captured earlier than in BE 1.3 in FM where I took it in August 42.

I think Malta and Gibraltar are a bit easy to capture, considering that it didn't happen historically. What about increasing their forts strength a little to delay their capture?
Delta66
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Delta66 »

I just realized that submarine have a range of 2,
It may be ok for naval combat, but in ship mode they can bomb land based target 2 hexs away, which feel weird considering that destroyer cannot do that. IMO destroyer were better at shore bombardment than submarine.
hugh2711
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by hugh2711 »

I am not getting the modified splash screen and cant import from the previous (to the big one) scenarios so i obviously have not installed properly.
I do not use JGME as i have tried many times following the instructions exactly without success and it takes so long to reinstall everything after screwing my installation.

SO; using windows 7 and NOT JGME exactly what files in the mod have to go in what directories for a correct progressive installation?.
many thanks
Delta66
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by Delta66 »

I had a similar problem month ago,
What worked for me was to install it manually,

In your "...\Panzer Corps\MODS\" drawer
create a drawer named exactly "Battlefield Europe v1.4", for me the issue that the archive main directory name was not correctly spelled.
Unzip the mods files in this directory, you should now have Audio, Data, Graphics, Library, UI, Video drawers "Battlefield Europe v1.4"

Then run JS GME and activate BE 1.4
Launch the game, be sure to add the 'nocache' option as explained in the mod manual.

Hope this help.
hugh2711
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by hugh2711 »

I didnt realise gme was required, surely then it should list this in the 'requirements' section of the single player campaigns sticky where it is listed.
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by HalopepZ »

BiteNibbleChomp wrote:
hs1611 wrote:
McGuba wrote:Currently I work on v1.5, after that I would like to finally update my previous Hungarian campaign. After that I might take a break from modding and/or try to make the allied version of this mod. Also, PzC is not very well suited for the Pacific theatre, it would need some new features added à la Pacific General.
Yes, please take a break and play some WWI mods, if you can find any.
It will make You Know Who happy!
:D

- BNC
I don't think McGuba would be happy to "surrender" to ze' Al Mighty BNC in the modding war.
Hi, I'm HalopepZ.
You can call me PepZ, Halopep, or HalopepZ.
BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.3

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

HalopepZ wrote:I don't think McGuba would be happy to "surrender" to ze' Al Mighty BNC in the modding war.
He did - quite a few months ago now so I'd nearly forgotten that thing ever happened

- BNC
Ryan O'Shea - Developer - Strategic Command American Civil War
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