AAR 800pts Sasanid Persian vs Dominiate Roman

[sgtsteiner]

FOG game today vs Stephen

Using my Sassanid vs his Late Romans.

Sassanid

1 FC
2 TC
2 BG of 6 Armd/Supr HC Bow/Swd
2 BG of 4 Armd/Supr HC Bow/Swd
1 BG of 4 LH Unprot/Avg Bow
1 BG of 4 Cat HArmd Lance/Swd
1 BG of 6 LF Unprot/Abg Bow
1 BG of 6 MF Unprot/Avg Bow
1 BG of 6 MF Prot/Avg Lr Spr
1 BG of 8 MF Mob/Poor LtSpr
2 BG of 2 Elephants

Romans (estimated)

1 FC
2TC
4 BG of 4 Legionaries with 2 LF Bow
2 BG of 4 MF Auxulia with 2 LF Bow
1 BG of 4 Cataphracts
1 BG of 6 MF Archers
2 BG of 4 LH Jav
2 BG of 4 Cav Lt Spr
1 BG of 4 Slingers
1 BG of 6 LF Javelin

Persian gained initiative and used Developed terrain with a River on left flank. My compulsory village ended up on Roman left edge and all other terrain ended up in my half with a small GH near river and my left bunged with large Enclose Field, a Vineyard and a Plantation.

Romans deployed with Legions massed in centre flanked by Aux on left with Archers and slingers and Cataphracts to their right with a BG of LH providing support to rear. Roman right comprised 2 BG of Cav with a BG of LH and BG of LF archers.
Sassanid placed an ambush of LF archers in the enclosed field with Hillmen in plantation also in ambush.

The MF archers deployed in the enclosed field with Levy. The Clibanarii deployed centrally with Cataphracts and on Persian. To their left the 2 BG of elephants were arrayed with a BG of LH on the GH with BG of Clibinarii behind.

Initial moves saw the Romans advance all along the line and Persians essentially matching them.

On Persian left and exchange of missiles between the LH saw the Persians go fragmented without losses and then evade Roman charge (they played no further part in proceddings ) Persian Cav charged with a General into oppossing Cav with their general and several rounds on inconclusive fighting ensued (Romans lost a base and went disrupted but recovered) with Roman LH charging ineffectually into Persian flank.

The Elephants charged the oppossing Roman LF and narrowly missed hitting a BG of Cav in skirmish order. Next turn the Elephants charged again and caught the LF (Cav evaded) and routed them. Nothing further of note occurred on this flank.
On Persian right the Persian LF Archers gained upper hand vs the Roman MF archers causing a loss. The Hillmen emerged from ambush to chase off enemy slingers. The Persian MF Archers shot with no effect at the Aux bearing down on them. The Aux then charged into the field and after some initial resistance the Persian archers routed.

The key central combat saw generally poor shooting from the Persian mounted and the Romans passed any Cohesion tests with ease. Persian lancers failed a CMT to not charge and broke off Disrupted from 2 Legion BGs.
The Legions charged enmasse into the lines of Clibinarii and usual grind occurred with Romans gaining slight advantage. Major turning point was death (by double 6) of a Persian General in frontline combat ! the Cohesion tests caused by this saw one Persian BG go Fragmented and another rout. This rout then Fragmented another BG and wavered the Inf in the field. Subsequently the Persian centre collapsed as did the right wing and their arrition level (12) was equalled ending the game in Romans favour

A decent game and played to completion in about 4 hours including several of our usual discussions.

Mounted Bow seem to be not very potent generally (especially if enemy pass any Cohesion tests) and Sassanids had problems dealing with Armd Romans with supporting Psiloi. They can option to use skirmish and frustrate the HF but still no real punch and evading Sassanid HC does not really seem very historical ?
As always the dice gods hate my guts nd other entrails................

FOG is growing on me as it is very playable but does seem a tad bland overall as a representation of Ancient Warfare compared to DBMM................................

Some pics









Cheers

[rbodleyscott]

I agree that skirmishing with Sassanid heavy cavalry is not very historical, but this does not mean that they have to engage in a stand-up fight against the Romans across the whole front. If they do so, they are likely to lose - which is historical!

Why not use their superior mobility to make a strong attack against one end of the Roman line, while delaying the other end of the Roman line with skirmishers.

I have played this match-up 4 or 5 times and the Sassanids have won every time. (Whether I was the Sassanids or the Romans).

[sgtsteiner]

Hi Richard

Yes better tactics required methinks but it was my first time using a Cav army in FOG so was in the usual 'lets see how these troops do' mode

If Romans had of failed a few Cohesion tests from my shooting it might have turned out differently and of course my own Cohesion testing was awful !

Next time....................

Cheers

[hammy]

The trick with shooting is to make your opponent test as much as possible, the more tests they take the more they will fail

If you just deploy in a solid block facing decent foot then you are really just using your expensive cavalry just like infantry.

Good report BTW.

[WhiteKnight]

Excellent report and pics!

I think next time concentrating fire on one part of the line will work, especially if the elephants can denude a flank of viable support, then fire at him from more than just straight ahead! The other flank can be harassed by LF/LH and threatened by heavier stuff. Worth a try!

Martin

[Maxshadow]

Could I suggest skirmish and bait his center and crush his wings?
Thanks for the nice pics.

[shall]

As the Sassanid Cv are Sw Arm they are actually set up not for skirmishing but rather for 2 or 3 volleys and charge.

This works rather well in 2 ranks vs most foot troops and in fact is opften reflected by the Romans cahrging the cv and the countercharge being assumedinthe POAs.

The shooting has a chance of DISR due to Sup re-rolls even though they need 5s. If they get that then a charge ain't bad as even at - at impact you have more dice and if they lose the - on CT for DISR swings things a fair bit. In the melee you are evens with more dice if you sruvive Impact OK and will stay in combat rather than break off to suffer another charge.

This therefore delibreately simulates

• Ride up
  Shoot 3 times and try to DISR them
  Charge them having got them borken up and therefby force and extended melee that you than can win

Of course if you fail to do anything then it will b a bit harder and likely ou will lose a base and be forced to break off an try again

So you pays your money and takes your choice but winning with Sassanids will happen more often with the above as RBS seems to have shown. Skirmish tactics has no risk but then is also less likely to break the enemy too as you spend lots of time running away and struggle to turn around. Works better with DR Bw Cv.

Si

[sgtsteiner]

Hi

As the Sassanid Cv are Sw Arm they are actually set up not for skirmishing but rather for 2 or 3 volleys and charge.
Si

Well that was my plan ie to disrupt the HF with bow volleys then charge in but it didnt work out that way as only 1 BG of Legionaries suffered a disruption from bow fire and it then won the ensuing impact/melee

Cheers

[sgtsteiner]

Hi

As the Sassanid Cv are Sw Arm they are actually set up not for skirmishing but rather for 2 or 3 volleys and charge.
Si

Well that was my plan ie to disrupt the HF with bow volleys then charge in but it didnt work out that way as only 1 BG of Legionaries suffered a disruption from bow fire and it then won the ensuing impact/melee
In fact it was these very sods that killed my Sub General

Cheers

[hammy]

The best laid plans...

In a situation like this I think the mounted army while not wanting to hare off wide on the flanks needs to concentrate a bit more attention on each end of the infantry line while keeping it honest in the centre. I noticed you had cataphracts, if they face off the Roman centre and then the asavaran concentrate a couple of cavalry BGs on each end Roman BG you mighe get a better effect.

There is definitley a knack to using shooty cavalry in FoG and when you get it right they are really good.

[shall]

Yep pick on the edges more and make sure you get a full 3 shots in. Angle some BGs to get more fire on ivnidual BGs a bit - don't worry the rules are set up to tidy it all up later with conforms...

In testing I took down Romans with Huns by putting 3 BGs of 4 LH in to 3 different places all shooting at 1 BG in each place and with a 2 BGs of Cav supporting in reserve of them for when the Romans wobbled. A perfect replica of hun tactics vs the visigoths.

James is right that there is a skill all of its own to using shooty cav armies ....

If you just line up then you still have a chance ... On average my gut feel is that you will force a test on Roman Bgs 2 out of 3 times with you Sup re-rolls. They will usually only need a 6 to pass though and with re-rolling 1s that is not a high chance. But still probably 25% chance per BG.

Where you fail I trust you remembered to break off when you got in combat. Otherwise you will get stuffed every time.

Also much less bland as the subtleties cut in. Your piccies are more of a straight up fight than an equivalent tussle on he table here where Terry uses Sassanids a fair bit.

Si

[hammy]

If you just line up then you still have a chance ... On average my gut feel is that you will force a test on Roman Bgs 2 out of 3 times with you Sup re-rolls. They will usually only need a 6 to pass though and with re-rolling 1s that is not a high chance. But still probably 25% chance per BG.

If you have 4 cavalry shooting in 2 ranks vs armoured infantry you will get 2 hits from the three dice just over 1/3rd of the time. If the Romans are in BG's of 6 in 2 ranks then you would get 4 shots and force a CT just over 50% of the time but most of these CTs would not be at -1.

if you can get two BGs of cavalry on one BG of infantry so 6 dice against 6 bases you will cause a CT just under 75% of the time and 43% of the time you will inflict the -1 even on a BG of 6.

Concentrating shooting makes a big difference in FoG

[shall]

Nice numbers James - fits my isntincts and the simulations we did

Si

[sgtsteiner]

Hi

The best laid plans...

I noticed you had cataphracts, if they face off the Roman centre and then the asavaran concentrate a couple of cavalry BGs on each end Roman BG you mighe get a better effect.

There is definitley a knack to using shooty cavalry in FoG and when you get it right they are really good.

Yes I had a BG of 4 Cats (I think 6 may be better) which charged in after failing a CMT. They hit 2 BGs of Legionaries with Archer support. They had awful dice even with re-rolls and went disrupted at Impact then Fragmented in Melee before breaking off although they dod not lose any bases to death rolls.
I then sent my FC to rally them but after 3 attempts they only managed to recover to Disrupted prior to game end.
Not an auspcious outing for my KnX

As to using shooty Cav they definately have a high learning curve as I found it hard to stop their shooting being split up and I was rather banking on their causing a few disruptions. But Legions being Superior with 3rd rank archers and a FC on hand made them tough to deal with.

To be fair to FOG in historical context the game did play out pretty much as history tells us ie the Roman foot got stuck in tout suite to thwart the Sassanid mounted bowfire

Anyway enjoyable enough even on receiving end and was happy to find that I was at least starting to think about tactics in FOG rather than learning/remembering rules.

Cheers

[KingHassan]

Good points Sarge.
This game is fun even in the learning stages.

[Maxshadow]

What I was suggesting was skirmish and bait his Legionaries with your LF and rubbishy peasants in the centre and crush his wings with your lovely Heavy Cav on the wings. To keep his legionaries occupied while you strip away their supports.

[Keith]

Yes good stuff , feed the legion peasants while you crush the rest of the romans under the hooves of your cavalry.