Demo Game Scores

[tora_tora_tora]

No, but they get the same formations as cavalry, and the offensive one gives them trample.

Thank you, so some formation gives you tranple, even you're foot infantry.

IT's really hard to hit enemy cavalry with javelins, so I clinched to scrab/rocky terrain or forests or river.
And with javelin, the final maps enemy rear guard skirmisher is mighter than your Level 9 velites, which is hard to believe, but they attack form too far,
And I don't know how to order them advance.

And there is another point, velites is relatively easy to overlap each other at the deployment screen.
So, you can mass your javelin rain on enemy advancing infantries. But when you put on signal button, they throw for a while and after that they disperse.

Heavy infantry, I mean line infantry is stout and do good in open terrain, but light infantry is interesting to see, what they do on the field.


PS
there are some units in some formations which is easy ot overlap with each other.
FOr example, legionary in balance formation, praetorian in disiplined balance formation, velite in offensive formation.
Auxilia Archer Cavalry are hard to overlap, I cannot find the way to overlap them each other. And there are many more units which I cannot try in Demo campaign. Concentrating velites' javelin rain at narrow front is one merit, but what's the point of concentrating legionary, which I wonder.

And I start to wonder the importance of reserve. Should I have one to put off aside the battle line? Or concentrate them at narrow front as first as possible? And the effectiveness of arrows deducts when they fire into enemy troops in contact, which I cannot prove, but I feel so.
Although, there are not so much order points once you manuve cavalry to attack enemy from rear. I need archer captain or something like that.


PS2
I finally realized how to get to level 11 and above before siege of Alesia.
Someone says in this forum, the experience your unit get is depend on your unit's level and enemy unit's level which your unit killed.
So, if I won't get my unit promoted even if I can and go on at level 1 until before the siege of Alesia, it means tremendous experienced unit at level 1.
Maybe, I try with one praetorian at Normal level.
And there are some hope, if I won't heal it at promotion screen. Can it be more Experience point, as with reduced strength unit to go through the map?

PS3
I managed to overlap Cavalry in offensive formation. If you change your unit's colour at promotion screen, you'll know which unit every individual troop belongs to. It's like checker board pattern. Overlaping Cav means much more trample at narrow front, but sometimes this means cav got killed instantously, maybe they got less manuver space?

PS4
One praetorian at normal level with out promotion for the first three maps, and I got wedge and square formation at level 11 or somewhere around that level. With spuare formation, you can put your Legate in the center hollow. And with enough command radius, every troop are in the yellow circle.
But, archers and velites are hard to get experienced without promotion at the end of each map. Maybe I should promote a little with essential skill like marksman or anti-infantry-specialist. Or I should deploy and operate archers as melee combat units so they can kill more enemy troops. In this point, velites are easier to get experienced than archers. 4 velites and 4 archers at normal level, and at the end of demo campaign, you got one level13 velites and one level 7 or around that archer.

[fatetriarrii]

I did it! I beat the final battle on Vary Hard! I have a screeshot, and I couldn't believe I had done it, but it worked!

What I did was to sell all the starting units except the cavalry and by two praetorians. Over the next mission I got nothing that wouldn't be useful against the infantry (including Trample for the cavalry). The second to last battle was tricky, but if you embed the praetorians in the forest and take out the archers with your cavalry, you should be fine. By the end, I believe the cavalry was level 9 and the two praetorians were levels 7 and 8.

I set up the leader and the two praetorians slightly of center to the right, but not in the forest, with the level eights and the leader closer toward the center. The cavalry were on the left edge, close to the back with waypoints specifically placed to catch just the archers as the line advances (they go straight up to around the middle of the field, and then reach the archers right were the forested lane begins).

After the cavalry finished off the archers (not hard, considering Trample, infantry specialist, and weapon grades) they were targeted againts the opponent's hero. The hero would ride ahead of the heavy infantry and pull my cavalry into a nice rear flank against the heavies on the side the leader goes to (I don't know if it really matters which fanatic they get, I just thought it might help).

With trample against the heavies (who should, if you placed the praetorians right, be seperated between your heavies and your cavalry) you can probably get at least one to flee before engaging.

The enemy leader will get so far ahead that he will die before the heavy infantry get there, but will arrive too late to be meaningful for the light infantry (who have fled by now). The cavalry then flee, but it is already over, because my two almost full health praetorians and leader (who has expert leadership) can take the final three or so enemies.

I didn't even use Rally!

[tora_tora_tora]

Congratulations!! fatetriarrii
Cavalry from behind seems terribley fearsome.


I've been trying thesedays to get units as much experienced as it can.
At Normal level, I finished with four archers and legate, and now am trying with three archers and legate.
These archers' level are 9, 9, 5. And legate is level 13. Cavalry's shock effect is really what archer want and doesn't have.

[fatetriarrii]

I thought that my next goal would be all cavalry, as I figured that that would be the easiest just because of their devstating power from behind. I was amazed to read you beat Very Hard with just two praetorians, that must have been hard! How did you do the final battle?

Anyway, that goal is now second to all legionares on hard, as I could not beat the first match-up with only five cavalry against six light infantry. The marsh taht dominates the map leaves so little room to maneuvre, the line has very small gaps, and the cavalry seem to lose 1v1. Legionares was simple though (I could afford three, but they win in a 1v2 with light infantry).

I haven't tried all archers, but I still find them very hard to use. I have seen them be effective at weakening the enemy, but they have such little ammo and can't hold against light infantry half their level.

Still, the game is very fun, and I hope you are doing well, tora_tora_tora. I salute your expertise.

[tora_tora_tora]

There are several points which may work. But there might be many points which I may misunderstand, so just for your reference.
Firstly, as there are only two Praetorians from the start, I expend all the denaris on their equipment improvements.
And got them promoted as little aspossible at the end of every map. Promote to level2 means units can equip with level 1 items for exsample.
So promote 1 level at the end of first map, and equip them level 1 items as little as possible, and then send them to battle and see how they work.
And at the end of fourth map, you have plenty of experience points and denaris.

Before siege of Alesia, Legate is at level 7, both praetorians at level 8.
As I have only 2 units ecept Legate, so I don't need large command radius. So I promote Legate as a another melee combat cavalry.
And as the final map's enemy army consists of infantry only, there are 7 light infantries and 4 heavy infantries and 1 skirmishers, so praetorians got promoted as anti-infantry-specialists.

At the deployment screen, put your unit far right side of the battlefield in offensive formation and order them to charge.

Once battle starts disignate waypoint for praetorians and legate around the far right up forest's or it's foreslope. and dash them straight to there.
Enemy first line wave light infantries starts to wheel right at certain time, so before they reach your praetorians, attack enemy heavy infantry.
And after that just wait.

Not a good tactics, but it worked. I don't know killing enemy heavy infantries first is right or wrong. Maybe attack enemy main units before praetorians get exhausted is right. But waiting far right down, at the edge of the forest is also works, sometimes.

Or, if deploy one praetorian at far right, and the other at far left, I guess enemy split into two, right and left, so this can have chance to go well. But
being envelopped can be bad for morale. And one of them is without command radius.

[sum1won]

I just found something out- not only can skirmishers trample, cavalry can get trampled. In a game against ehre, our nobles ran into one anotehr with a clash like athousand swords, and 6 liddle red horseshoes floated up.

[fatetriarrii]

I did it! All Legionares on Very Hard. Every battle save the first and fourth had challenges I did not expect.

The second was hard because of the skirmishers, who I could not fight in the woods, but wreaked terror on my legions (as I did not want to promote more than absolutely necessary, because of experience). I had to re-vamp a couple times, but it wasn't very complicated in the end.

The third was un-winnable for quite a while, with only 2 level 3 legionares and one level 4 (my leader was level 4 I believe). I ended up having to go all out against the enemy cavalry in the northern section of river, then pull AWAY from the enemy to gain time (the Skirmishers were, again, evil machines of death). Finally, I had to engage and cross my fingures (my leader died and one legion fled).

The fifth wasn't too hard, with everyone to level 8. I had trouble with the leader dying, so I had the following set-up. One legion to the far right, set to take out the enemy archers (that was, unfourtunately, their only role, as they could not get back to the main battle in time). One legion a little back from the limit for the farthest out and a little off to the right (around straight up from the forest edge, or straight down from the hole between the first and second enemy light infantry on the right). The final legion and the leader right behind the second, in the forest.

I just waited until my forward legion was beginning to be surrounded by the enemy light infantry, then hit them with my reserve (not the leader yet, though). Then, after the heavy infantry had engaged my two legions, I sent in the leader. A lot of fighting, one fleeing legion and the barest sliver of my leader's health, but I won.

Now I will have to come up with a new goal.

[honvedseg]

Congrats, fatetriarii. I applaud your victory.

After I give the full campaign another run, I'm going to have to go back to the demo and beat that one myself. Can't have you holding the only seat in an exclusive club, now can we?

[fatetriarrii]

Tora_tora_tora says he has done with just two praetorians! I think I will go cavalry next, but I hope the full gamewill come soon so I can explore more intricate strategies with stuff ike Elephants !!!

They must be fun to use

[tora_tora_tora]

Tora_tora_tora says he has done with just two praetorians!

In fact, as praetorians are stout heavy infantries, so I just choose suitable positions for them at deployment screen with several tries
and take a little care with Legate in the battle. Large command radius (yellow circle which surronds your general) to contain whole units helps me.
And when things permits, I send Legate to chase after retreating enemy troops to trumple to get him experienced.

PS
I realized overlapped heavy infantries are too tight, so heavy cavalries cannnot pass through them.
Send heavy cavalires in front of heavy infantries overlapped, and engage enemy, then hit disengagement button, they stay right before heavy infantires.
I don't know this is useful for somekind of trick or just for fun, but this game is well-made, especially light infantries are so through made.

PS2
At Siege of Alesia, the enemy army's main force is second wave heavy infantries' center, two fanatics, so to crush them before praetorians got exhausted,
I deploy them at the center right, in front of them and order them to charge. This also work.
The second map, woods and snowy sloops, the third map, river crossing is rather hard for them.

PS3
finished with one legate and four auxilias at normal level. Advanced formation diciplined and offensive is really good. And from level 10 to level 11,
there is another advanced formation, wedge and square. From the numerical advanteges each formations give to indivudual unit, wedge's merit seems inferior to disiplined and offensive. There must be some secrets in this formation. Maybe square is useful for heavy infantry against cavalry in the open terrain. So wedge is useful under certain situation which I cannot figure out right now.

So from the initial denari I have at the first map deployment screen, four auxilias is 1200 points. It equals one praetorians, six velites, two auxilias and three velites, two archers/cavalris mix and two velites, one legionary and two velites. And one auxilia and four velites, one archer and two auxlias, one cavalry and two auxilias, one archer/cavalry and three velites is 1100 denarii.
These army option's units number is varied from one unit to six units, except legate. I suppose six velites is most difficult. Skirmishers against light infantry , terrain-wise employment is what I need. Put velites in the boggy terrain which gives them advantege, and against enemy infantry in the open terrain which ristricts them. Consentrate far left and destroy enemy right wing and proceed to center may work. Good point is they need less order points compared to auxilias.

auxilia 300
velite 200
legionary 800
praetorian 1200
archers 500
cavalry 500

[fatetriarrii]

Tora_tora_tora. Great knowledge! The heavy infantry over-lapping might be useful (I just read the article Here:
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/646/646177p1.html)

Maybe it could be used to get more trample out of your cavalry (I know routing cavalry at least can still do it) even after they have fled. Pretty brutal, though

Anyway, I am here to announce an achievement! I won the first demo scenario on Very Hard with just cavalry! The set up is a s follows (I colored my cavalry Black 1 + 2, Brown 1 + 2, and White):

Units Brown 1 + 2 are put at the far right, one in defenseive and one in balanced, on the far right (balanced farther right than the defensive) and slightly overlapped so they both attack the far right infantry, defensive unit first and followed shortly by the balanced (they are both on long hold).

Units Black 1 + 2 are put around the middle of the road, overlapped as much as possible, with the leader, slightly off to the right so all of them charge the enemy infantry two from the right.

The White Unit is behind the two Black ones, slightly off to the right, near the back edge off the field.


As the infantry three from the right begins to engage the Black Cavalry, order the White Cavalry to attack. When the Brown cavalry finish off the one infantry they were set to get, order the balanced one south of the main battle (as the other infantries should have been filing in by now) and the defensive one north. Then give this sequence of orders (I had to give them out as soon as I was able, so I assume anyone trying this should need to also):

Rally
Lower Brown Cavalry attack
Upper Brown Cavalry into Offensive
Upper Brown Cavalry attack
Lower Brown Cavalry into defensive.

Only two cavalry routed for me.

Now for Mission 2

[tora_tora_tora]

Four cavalry on Very Hard level is very hard, I guess, and yet you succeed.
You're really skillful, I'm sure. Your tacitics suggests your Legate is quick-thinker and strategist.
And changing units' formation during battle is also interesting, which I havn't tried yet.
So with heavy infantry in square formation wait enemy cavalries to charge and when they in contact, under somekind of cover,
let them change their formation to offensive or whatever may work. Maybe in this way, I can clear with better results at Ambush at Divo, the fourth map.

I tend to have Legate to have large command radius, but not so much of strategist.

PS
I finished three auxilias at normal level. So 900 denarii. Auxilias need more order points than velites, but they are stout and having only one javelin,
easier to control. Sometimes velites are eager to throwing javelins, instead of moving into favorable terrain.

[fatetriarrii]

Actually, it is the first battle, so I didn't have any command upgrades (quick thinking and strategist). It was intense, staring at the little order pionts bar and willing it to climb.

Mission 2 and 3 were a breeze, but those 4 units of level 5 heavy cavalry ( !!) are causing real problems. I even sacrificed precious leveling ability for level 5 in all my cavalry, but the enemy still overwhelms me. (in fact, I gave one cavalry unit a cavalry specialty!). I might have to back up to complete this one.

but I figured out that when it comes to fighting with cavalry, the only difference is that you can't make any head-long charges. It has more of planning aspect of "That unit goes there to draw the enemy this way so that unit can hit them from behind."


I also like the leadeership for a commander. I tend to know exactly what orders I will give with just enough timing for them all, so that the two order points upgrades aren't very useful.

And for the auxiliaries, amazing! I can't see how you use them, as I feel that it is nigh impossible to just go skirmishers without some kind of protection. As I said, i had head aches using them on Normal with a wall of legionaries in front.

[tora_tora_tora]

Actually, it is the first battle　

Mission 2 and 3 were a breeze　

I agree. When I test some kind of army composition, the first narrow gate is map 1.
Without promotion, without items, it's really hard. But thanks to forests in map4 and I try mostly light infantry(Auxilia) and skirmisher(Velites) thesedays,
it's not so hard. And I sometimes put heavy infantries and cavalries and archers deep in the wood to avoid being trampled.

And for the auxiliaries, amazing! I can't see how you use them, as I feel that it is nigh impossible to just go skirmishers without some kind of protection. As I said, i had head aches using them on Normal with a wall of legionaries in front.

Thank you, but it's really not so hard, just make sure to put battleline in Legate's command radius.
And maybe there is a trick to take advantage of some of game features or somekind of bug.
When Legate is surrounded by enemy troops, put on disengagement button, and then sometimes enemy troops are dashing down to lower hem of screen.
Even Legate is still surrounded in the circle of enemy troops, maybe in their mind chasing after Legate.
Disengagement the moment cavalries in contact and lure enemy troops out and let them break their formation is good tactics, but I don't know, this one is good one or not. And I try not to use.

PS
I tried two Auxilias and one Velites and one Legate and finished at the Normal level. So this army costs 700 denarii at initial map deployment screen.
At map 3, Auxilias managed to lure one of enemy level 9 heavy infantries to attack into the river and make their day.
At the siege of Alesia, one of Auxilias at level 11 or somewhere got 197 killings, mostly enemy first wave light infantries, thanks to the other managed to repulse the second waves heavy infantries, and level 3 items.

PS2
finished one Auxilia and two Velites and one Legate at Normal Level. Changing screen config get game time speed something odd, but I don't know why.
It got suddenly slowly. Yet I can order as usual. And units do fight as always. One of Legate's promotion choice at level 12 or somewhere got to be frenzy.
Maybe, killing enough enemy troops? Or somekind of masterskill, something like swordmanship or masteranti-infantry-specialist is this condition.
Second map is very hard. Third map at the river crossing and fourth map is reatively easy.So 700 denarii at the first map force structuring phase.
Lower than this is two Auxilias,three Velites at 600, one cavalry/archer, one Auxilia and one Velites at 500. Most viable option is two Auxilias.

[fatetriarrii]

I guess it shows how different the all cavalry and all archer amies really are, as the second map presents little challenge to mounted troops, but the fourth is like a brick wall. Basically, I have five level 5 heavy cavalry against four level five heavy cavalry, five light cavalry, and three skirmishers, and an extra leader! absolutly no terrain that could benifit me.

Also, I am amazed to hear how outsandingly well you are doing with your mixes! Three light units! incredible. and in two different variations, and it appears to have taken you no mor than three days!

[tora_tora_tora]

As cavalry units never dismout and never fight as dismounted warrior, it is something odd, but I sometimes put my cavalry units in the wood.
And wait enemy heavy cavalries to rush into the wood. And then try to envelop enemy heavy cavalries in the wood before enemy light cavalries arrive.
Then as soon as enemy light cavlries got entangled in melee combat, I send one of cavalry against enemy arhcers.

And I'm trying two auxilias and legate at normal level, without succeeding. What I should find is which part of enemy light infantires to destroy first.
Chasing one of enemy units and wait in the favorable terrain, and my units in swamp against enemy units in open terrain, thing will go well.
So predict their movement and choose which one ought to be attacked is what I'm trying to find out.

And I'm wondering the best way to envelop enemy infantries. If it takes too much time, the anvil collapse and flee.So units do flee when certain amount of their troops got killed, I ought to make every troop in the unit to fight and make them inflict as much damage on enemy units as possible.
So massing army at one corner of the battlefield is good, but too much massing means envelopped by enemy hordes.

[fatetriarrii]

What seems to work with cavalry (and might work with auxilias) would be to put one auxiliae in defensive on the hill with the legate. The other would be directly behind in offensive. Then you just have to wait until the enemy begins to evelope your first light infantry and hit them from behind with your second one. If you place it right, you might also be able to make your opponent's units spend most of their time just standing around and staring.

Sounds very hard, though.

I might try putting my cavalry in the woods, though, as then I would be away from the skirmishers and the light cavalry long enough to dispose of the enemy heavies (hopefully). Great idea!

[tora_tora_tora]

Thank you your advice, fatetriarrii.
As you say there are some hills or mounts in the first map, not a large slops those in the second map or third map, but there are.
And this is a great hint to find the clue.

So, try to get engage in melee combat with my units in advantageous terrain against enemy troops in disadvantageous one,
I put two auxilias in offensive formation at the center just bellow the swamp and ordered them to long-hold. Legate is between two Auxilias.
After battle starts, I ordered them to advance to watch their status, at the moment when terrain turns to boggy terrain, I put on halt button.
Then watching enemy light infantry unit to turn toward center, where Auxilias fighting against one light infantry unit, I put on cursor on them to
check their terrain status. Alas, my intent did not succeed, their in boggy land, though some of them seems to be on the plain by the swawp.
Now, my Auxilias against 5 light infantries in the middle of swamp. My last hope is they are all in Legate's command radius.Battle ensue, and
several of enemy troops turned their buck and runnaway, although my auxilias head and neck is turned to red, which mean their breaking point is not far.
For a several minutes, I hesitate to put on signal button, but before I decide Auxilias start to run away. And I order Legate to disengage to fight in the plain. Legate itself never mind with terrain, but enemy light infantry are disadvantaged in open terrain. I tired to disengage some other try before without succeeding, somehow this time he got succeed. And wait until only one left enemy light infantry to emerge from swamp, Legate manueve to hit and away.
After he got caught and surrounded, I ordered him to disengage several times, and each time I put on the button, Legate trample enemy troops.
Finally they fled.
so two Auxilias and one Legate, at 600 denarii normal level.

I can imagine surrounded war elephants trying to disengage means pure disaster for his enemys, especially heavy infantry in defensive formation.
And again, my Legate got promotion choice from level12 to level 13, frenzy.

[fatetriarrii]

Your legate defeated them one handed? That is quite amazing

Sadly, I will be gone for two weeks, but I have the full game now!

I will keep you posted on how I do, and I might come back to the demo in a couple months

[tora_tora_tora]

Your legate defeated them one handed? That is quite amazing

Not so hard, actually, as the last enemy light infantry was already soften up by my Auxilias for some amounts.
I suppose they were already shaken, before Legate does hit and runaway.

Sadly, I will be gone for two weeks, but I have the full game now!

That is really sad, you know, this thread is not exclusive, thanks to your participate. I guess there are some people watchind this thread,
but not so many people dare to write.
And I envy you, as I'm still waiting for Legion Areana to be released in Japan. Maybe some of the shop do private import or something like that,
but what I need is Japanese community to play with. And I'm wondering to start a blog in Japanese of Legion Arena.

I will keep you posted on how I do, and I might come back to the demo in a couple months

I am really looking forward you to reading your after action reports.

By the way, as I watch demo movies for several dozen times, and while waiting release in Japan, I want to read some of Simon Scarrow novels.
Which I should I read first? As Mark Twein's Yankee in King arthur, which is full of old English, or middle English, is it full of Latin, and figures in novel acutally talk in Latin? IF so, sorry I cannot read, but with modern English, I can try at least. According to amazon jp, there are some paperbacks
which I can afford to buy a few.

P.S.
Try to kill as many troops as possbile with Legate at Nromal level
scored 16 killing. And when I completed dodge to master level, there appeared new skill parry. It's too bad I cannnot test this skill as the demo campaign
is really short.

P.S.
Merry Xmas! And a Happy new year!

P.S.
finished 3 cavs and one legate at normal level. Cav can get frenzy from level 12 to level 13. Though at alesia, all of cav got caught and not succeeding in manuvering. But these days, I forgot to manage how to manage huge army. Default composition army without items, as little as promotion is rellatively hard. And as nobody tell me about Simon Scarrow, so I decided to buy the first one. I'm wondering the difference between hardcover and paperback.
Are there a lot more maps and pictures in hardcover, or are there any sidestories which in fact reader should read first before mainlines or something like that I want to know. Though maybe I should be the first one in this forum to know these things.

P.S.
finished with default army at Hard level. expend denarii for two legionaries armor level 2 and nothing else. Cavalry can trample marching enemy level 7 light infantry and chase them after. And after finishing one of first wave units, cavalry lured one of second wave heavy infantry and managed to finish them off with velites and auxilias. Final result is got silver medal(the medal shown with killing scores) need to hone skills.

P.S.
I checked scarrow borthers web site. And got to know the　synopsis of the first five or so of Roman legion series. It seems I ought to buy serially,
from the beginning. Amazon jp said the first book will arive from 12/27 to 12/29. The rest three (I didn't order all seven or so, to save fun and enjoy long) will arive around mid-January. So, things go as they say, I can get my copy really soon. And now I finally to try to finish with no healing. There is auto healing, so there are some safety margines. Maybe 10% or so? And items like armor can really helps to reduce casualities. So this try means to take care of every units not to be overwhelmed. Cavalry and velites is what I ought to take care. Two legionaries are relatively troubleless in this meaning. Just unit them on open ground and wait. Anyway, this is good to wait for legion arena to be released in Japan and hone army employment technics, or tactics.

P.S.
Without healing at hard level, not so hard thanks to armors and weapons till last map. But at alesia, cavalry is only one troop and velites is 9 troops, even legionaries are 15 or something like that. One man cavalry is directly go fighting against enemy rear guard skirmishers to make them busy and thus my legionaries don't have to mind arrow rains. With hitandaway tactics, cavalry take away some of enemy skirmishers before he perished. And thanks o heavy armors, legionaries were able to hold against enemy waves. But the real problem is time limit. Without enough killing powers, they cannot finish off all of enemy units before time is up. So the second map is really important. To save auxilias and velites from disaster means much more choices in the third map.

P.S.
I got the first book. And read the first 5 chapters. The real adventure seems to begin. Good way to be introduced into roman legion's life and roman history , I suppose.