Cover/Obstacle query & Skirmish Moves

[sgt.steinerbtinternet.com]

Hi

Query arose in game last night (see pics at http://sgtsteiner.blogspot.co.uk/2014/0 ... young.html) regarding Cover and Obstacles
Situation was unit of Russian Jager was within (ie about 4" inside) an Enclosed Field which we depicted as lined with Hedging.
A unit of French Chasseurs had chased a Cossack unit into same field.
As we understood it the Hedge was an obstacle to Chasseurs so they had to stop upon reaching the Hedge/Edge of field. However when the Jager went to fire at this Chasseur unit we were unsure if the target (ie the Chasseurs) benefited from the Hedge as Cover ??
Cover benefit is defined as having a unit entirely within a piece of cover.
However Obstacles mentioning touching (in fact only walls are by default counted as cover).
Seemed logical that the 'Cover' in this case being a hedge would benefit the Cavalry as they were touching and it was between them and firers.

On related note if the unit 'at' the obstacle had firing ability would the Jager who where within the field but not touching hedge at edge count as in cover ?

We found the rules for Cover/Obstacles a bit opaque as it were

Re a unit of Skirmishers who are outside 2" of enemy being able to make a 1/2 move in ANY direction does this mean they can sidestep half speed etc or do they have to face in direction moved ?

Cheers

[bahdahbum]

Re a unit of Skirmishers who are outside 2" of enemy being able to make a 1/2 move in ANY direction does this mean they can sidestep half speed etc or do they have to face in direction moved ?

If infantry SK and irregulars, they may sidestep . Others may not .

As I do not have my rule book with me I will have to check about the cover

[sgt.steinerbtinternet.com]

Hi

Ta for reply

Still bit confused over cover vs obstacle (although not hard to house rule)

Cheers

[deadtorius]

Check page 80 right hand side top bullet: "Cavalry gain no benefit from defending an obstacle."

The French horse would not get any -POA for being shot at.

I will try to describe cover versus an obstacle for you.
Cover is basically trees so any terrain features that are probably man sized or taller. When standing inside the feature you have things physically blocking you, tree trunks for example, that your troops can hide behind that provide cover. Also the over head foliage will help block the sun so you get shadows that can further hide and obscure your troops from being seen by enemies who are outside the terrain. Any troops inside covering terrain will benefit from a -POA vs being shot at. Standing in among the trees does not effect your shooting out so you would hit enemies standing outside the cover in the open with normal hit numbers. If the enemy and your troops are both inside the covering terrain feature they both gain the benefit of the overhead foliage and the trunks and both count as being in cover for shooting.

An obstacle is a terrain feature that slows down movement, river, stream or gully, but does not provide cover unless it is a stone wall. The only way to gain protection from the wall is to move up to it and probably you would have to be kneeling so that only head and shoulders would be showing above the wall. Cavalry standing next to a wall that is likely only around waist high to a man, would only cover the horses lower legs. The horses body and the full rider are exposed to shooting and so no cover benefits are gained while mounted.

Hope that helps a bit.

[MDH]

One of the difficulties or conundrums we face in miniatures games is that once we get much above a 1:1 ratio of men to figure, terrain becomes increasingly modular and purely representative and is not in any way an exact model of what we say it is or appears to be - it is not a diorama and a tree placed on base wit other trees is not literally where it is.

And our figures alone can be tens of meters tall in ground scale terms and can literally be seen when terrain rules say they cannot - just behind hill crests for example . Even using a model of a hedge begs the question what sort - massive Normandy Bocage or more minimalist East Anglian field hedge ? And whether a slope is steep or not is affected by the centre of gravity of the figure or stand if you take it literally . 5mm may not slide down where 28mm will. So we just say it is (or not).


Not a problem for HG Wells Little Wars of course ; 54mm figures fired at by guns aimed by the player with wooden shells (or matchsticks) physically knocking them down. If you can see it you can hit it and the opposite .Terrain is then just what it is for cover purposes and a tuft of grass on the lawn can deflect a shell or a shallow depression hide most of a figure making it harder to hit.

Undulating terrain is rarely covered adequately in rules because, short of a sand table ,it is almost impossible to model above 2-5mm. I do think you can do something in 5mm or below and have done so in the past and a laser pointer can illuminate a unit to see if it is visible in that scale eg for 1/300 micro armour ( and even for larger models)

So we define the virtual but not the literal effects of model terrain in relation to the rules for movement, disorder and cover and the descriptions we give to it are a guide as to how you model it so as to distinguish it from another different type of terrain and to bear at least some resemblance to the geographical area we are depicting - mainly for aesthetic reasons .

We could as easily for game purposes just lay down shaped pieces of paper or card with the effects on movement disorder and visibility written on them without even labelling them vines, enclosed fields etc. But why use miniatures at all in that case?

If you go down to a much smaller man: figure ratio I think you can then consider what an individual model might really represent - certainly for lines of sight and as obstacles.

[deadtorius]

As for side stepping, my take on it has always been that you move 1/2 move any direction means you stay facing your original facing after the move. To change facing you would have to wheel to face a new direction. Also puts a bit of a restriction on side stepping that you can't just turn on a dime as well as fluttering about the table at the same time.

[pugsville]

I disagree about skirmisher moves, 1/2 move distnace in any direction, there is no wheeling , they get to face where ever they like.