[Axis Campaign] Legacy of Versailles-vanilla v0.3 (11/08/14)

[timek28]

Hey Nikki, the changes into the Maple Leaf operation made it just difficult enough. Lot less allied air-force gave me a chance to get a MV in 25/26 turns. So I guess it is a good measure now. Bear in mind that I didn't have any rail artillery until you provided one AUX Gustav. If I didn't jump over scenarios (France one) I would have gotten 2 rail guns to my core, that might have made a difference here. Also DV still seems a bit far. Although it seems doable now. Those Tortoise tanks lurking back are kind of frightening and prevented me from pushing across Canada border... MV was enough.

Now I'm starting the US scenarios. What I found incredible here is the amount of prestige I get at the beginning. I received about 80K of prestige!!! Is this the way it is meant to be? I've been playing with 1.20 rules, but with the 130% prestige boost to try to annul prestige cap. If this is the way it is supposed to be, then I can't believe the amount of hell and number of units I'm about to encounter in US

[Horst]

As a general suggestion: receiving additional core units with heroes for free is always nice, but these are typically too powerful with the single hero and his multiple bonuses compared to ordinary units. Two additional random heroes later with excellent bonuses could make single superhero units even more unnecessarily powerful.
I’d rather see balanced free units with multiple heroes with single, ordinary bonuses you could normally obtain too. Even a single +3 Attack/Defense hero is a powerful addition to every unit, same as a simple +1 Initiative one, because the best bonuses aren’t normally guaranteed with random heroes.
For example, the Legion Condor units in Fall Weiss could have been more balanced if you add more than one veteran/hero to them. It doesn’t really need to be the best bonuses. Any start-bonuses on free reinforcements are welcome.
Units with only ordinary bonuses also won’t seduce you that much to reload a game if you loose them.
Units with compensation-heroes, for example on large-scale maps that add firing range to railguns or similar, are fine as long as they are only auxiliary ones. Same like buffing the weak reserve infantry aux-units if you use them as Finnish troops with arctic training.

[nikivdd]

@Timek: thanks for the Maple Leaf update

@Horst: v0.3 should be later this week; i have also made some (minor changes) to certain scenarios which was suggested on the other forum. A short but full changelog will be posted with the update.

[huertgenwald]

You got a "Promotion", nikivdd ? So envious ...

[Horst]

Alright, I'm going to pause my conquest in Norway then.
It was nice to play my favorite Suomussalmi defense again.

[timek28]

I've just finished Tea Party scenario. It was pretty fun!

As usual it took me several tries to get the right strategy. One problematic thing is that western deployment zone is much smaller then eastern one (~13 hexes vs ~28 hexes), so it is hard to push towards Buffalo properly with that little units. That is why I had to redirect all my forces in the middle towards west, and that wasn't very easy. But I did it somehow anyways. MV as usual.

Now I'm entering the Philadelphia scenario. For the first time EVERI have encountered the T28 super heavy tank... Obviously it isn't a custom unit. And it is historical. My question is is there ANY other scenario in regular game that gives this unit as an enemy? Or is it just an option to buy when all the units are unlocked? Even in Alied Corps there was no option to buy this thing, and Tortoise was given as a gift... Hopefully there are no more unpleasant surprises on Allied side

Anyways the scenario seems quite difficult as usual. I'll be grinding through it in following days. I can't imagine how or when would I complete LoV if I restarted it from the beginning. It is hands down the most demanding campaign of all campaigns that I played (both original, DLC or custom). Especially time wise, and it requires multiple restarts in my case to get right strategy for every given scenario. Nikki did a great job of unit placement. There are traps and lurking enemies everywhere and one wrong move can decimate the unit that was exposed. It is equally fun because it is so challenging. But it drains energy...

Once I finish LoV I plan to play Supreme Commander 2 again. Just to cool off from PC for some time... Harder said then done.

[nikivdd]

LoV - Vanilla has been updated to v0.3

Changes:
- Very Fast Heroes package included! If you use these tweaked files, heroes will appear much faster than before. You need to extract the rar file in the LoV data folder and overwrite;
- Scenario Suomussalmi : the SOV heavy tanks and SOV paratroopers have been removed;
- Scenarios Godthab and scenarios in Canada: decreased overall difficulty;
- Scenario Felix/Isabella: Portugal is now neutral territory;
- Scenarios East and South Africa: added more deployment hexes for ships and planes;
- Scenario Allied counterattack Egypt: savename has been shortened, Reich's economics trigger removed;
- Scenario Dover '44: Reich's economics trigger removed;
- Adlerangriff '44: zone B has been reduced, a MV no longer finishes the campaign;
- The preset heroes of the Legion Condor units in Fall Weiss have been trimmed down.

All changes were proposed by players on Slitherine and Streitmacht. Thank you for your feedback.

[timek28]

I've just finished the Philadelphia scenario. I got a MV as usual.

Couple of points:

1) US troop spawns. They exist again. I'm thinking about the ones around the cities when player is close to conquering city. What does this depend on? AI prestige? They are not problematic to be destroyed instead they are just annoying.

2) When Philadelphia gets conquered there is a massive counterattack from the south as well as from NY itself. While this is interesting concept, NY counterattack has no logical meaning. The city has been cut off from the rest of US for the long time and surrounded. And suddenly there are spawns of US heavy infantry, airplanes and tanks coming out of NY. While NY may have been to produce troops due it's sheer size, I doubt they would have electricity or water to do so in the total siege.

Or those are not spawns but garrisoned units? To me they seem like spawns. Too many units coming out.

3) This is more as a remainder to me - converting light units to heavy units is almost mandatory. Tiger IIs are the way to go. Panthers are too light for both M26, M4A376E2 as well as for T28. Also Panthers are easy pray for US tank destroyers. US is serious opponent in armor now.

[timek28]

I've finally came to the conclusion why there was so much prestige given at the beginning of US scenarios...

After that barely any prestige is given in-between the scenarios and scenarios are brutal.

The latest I finished is Gettysburg tank battle. It was atrocious. US tanks, AT guns and artillery coming from all sides! The good thing was they all had 0 experience. This was just a leverage made by Nikki to keep this scenario winnable.

Due that I had to convert all my tanks into Mice and blow attackers away. Maybe that was a bad decision I don't know. I just couldn't take any more that M26s would attack Panthers with ease. I got a MV on second or third try which is very good for LoV (or my) standards. I'm down to 17K of prestige only now (80K at the beginning of US). And I have lost 2 core units in this battle. Considering the intensity of the battle loosing units was kind of normal. Although I lost 2 due to speed of play and carelessness. One Mouse veteran in close terrain to Rangers and other bomber due to lack of fuel.

I will continue playing anyways and see what future brings. Once again by far the most intense campaign I have ever played. I will definitely feel proud once I finish it. Not for everyone (beginners). More like PC veterans only...

[Horst]

The player/AI can buy units around city flags if it has enough prestige, no enemy ground-unit touches the city-hex, the flag is under control at least two turns after it was captured, and there are free core/aux slots available.
The AI’s "wagon forts" around city flags typically appear when you have decimated its core units below the set core slot numbers. These slot settings are found in the scenario editor under Edit/Scenario Params/Sides.
To prevent such annoying reinforcements, you have to set the AI’s slots to 0 and control unit reinforcements by scripts, condition-triggers or simply deny totally.

[timek28]

Horst I understand that. I'm just pointing out what I found. And Nikki did correct those things in prior scenarios. This phenomenon is the product of relatively poorly written AI behaviours. I would rather say that it is an AI trick.

But if it is too much work or hustle there is no problem if it stays as it is. Getting a DV in LoV is anyways almost impossible (at least for me). Those fortified cities are usually not the ones needed for MV.

[Horst]

Those dynamic AI purchases can indeed turn a decisive victory into a minor or even a loss one, like in the Wehrmacht vanilla campaign with harsh turn requirements. It’s a thing I don’t like either that much and rather prefer smarter reinforcements by the designer. Town-reinforcements would be plausible if you face the Soviets which could popup conscripts everywhere, but hardly artillery and anti-tank units.
Well-made reinforcements would be those triggered at screen edges along roads and railroads, or places of manufacturing, like Stalingrad at certain areas.
Can’t remember if something like that was already done by designers, that you have to capture/destroy hangar/supply-dump like factories to stop a frequent spawning of units. That would be a nice RTS reinforcement element adding to a turn-based scenario.

[nikivdd]

Thanks guys for your input.
The next update will be v1.0 in which the AI unit spawn will be corrected and some tweaks to the last set of scenarios as a result of your feedback. I think that should finalise the mod altogether.

[timek28]

Nikki thanks for everything as usual

Just one more thing to add. I've seen that you have been adding retreat (unit swap) hexes in updated scenarios. It would be a great thing if every scenario would have this. Although original PC doesn't utilize this as it might be consider a cheat of sort, I don't think it is cheat or illogical. Commander can always swap his units from the front line and I see no problem with that. Also considering the length of LoV and versatility of it's scenarios it is very nice to have this feature. It saves time (as LoV requires lots of time) and repeated attempts if unit composition is not absolutely perfect for any given enemy formation.

[nikivdd]

Nikki thanks for everything as usual

Just one more thing to add. I've seen that you have been adding retreat (unit swap) hexes in updated scenarios. It would be a great thing if every scenario would have this. Although original PC doesn't utilize this as it might be consider a cheat of sort, I don't think it is cheat or illogical. Commander can always swap his units from the front line and I see no problem with that. Also considering the length of LoV and versatility of it's scenarios it is very nice to have this feature. It saves time (as LoV requires lots of time) and repeated attempts if unit composition is not absolutely perfect for any given enemy formation.

The exit hex was suggested some time ago. Where applicable, i added this into the scenario. If i forgot one, let me know.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Nikki thanks for everything as usual

Just one more thing to add. I've seen that you have been adding retreat (unit swap) hexes in updated scenarios. It would be a great thing if every scenario would have this. Although original PC doesn't utilize this as it might be consider a cheat of sort, I don't think it is cheat or illogical. Commander can always swap his units from the front line and I see no problem with that. Also considering the length of LoV and versatility of it's scenarios it is very nice to have this feature. It saves time (as LoV requires lots of time) and repeated attempts if unit composition is not absolutely perfect for any given enemy formation.

The exit hex was suggested some time ago. Where applicable, i added this into the scenario. If i forgot one, let me know.

I also added 'escape hexes' to the WWI mod, and I don't think of them as cheats. However, in defensive scenarios where your army falls back from deployment lines, they can cause cheats, as deploying a Tiger II behind the enemy wave to blast all of its artillery to oblivion can be quite unfair, as well as not being humanly possible without a massive air operation (and even then - a Tiger II on a Ju 52?!)

- BNC

[timek28]

@Nikki

Actually (unless I missed something) most of the scenarios lack exit hexes. I have only seen them in the 4-5 scenarios that you have explicitly corrected on my suggestions (contained in v 0.3).

BTW How come there is going to be such a big jump from 0.3 to 1.0? I do understand that you are occupied by different projects though and that further improvements of LoV may be unnecessary.

For now the already given updates make the mod more or less completely enjoyable. Maybe it would be nice to give players an option of skipping UK44 scenario? I believe 80 move scenario is not suited for everyone. It might be interesting if the campaign was shorter (or if it was standalone scenario), but the campaign is very long so this scenario could be a bit overwhelming (as it was in my case).

[nikivdd]

@Timek

I'll re-check the scenarios for exit hexes, perhaps i forgot the exit marker. And i'll also add the possibility to ommit UK 44, as this is the biggest map i ever made (and probably will make).
I suppose after the next update, this mod will be a fully fledged v1.0; unless afterwards there are still bugs, this could well be the final update. Not that it will be soon though, i need my time for my official assignment.

[timek28]

Great news Nikki

With all those updates mod will rock!

Right now I'm on my second try at NY scenario. I do realize the difficulties I'm having due the fact that I cheated my way to Greenland. My core composure is not the best or most balanced one but I'm tweaking things on the go.

[timek28]

One comment on NY scenario.

Why is it only allowed to deploy ships in Long Island Sound and not into New York Bight? There is no logic in this other then to purposely prevent naval bombardment of southern NY... This is strange especially since in Philadelphia scenario German ships where allowed to sail anywhere along the eastern US cost and more or less I decimated US fleet in that region.

The way it currently is, 6 ships help me out to clear out middle-east-north of the map, but after some 10th turn they sit Idle along East River as they cannot pass anywhere else. This is serious firepower not being used.

Meanwhile the weather deteriorates, my planes cannot bomb, my ships cannot bomb and all I'm left with is artillery which I don't have enough. I have 8 artillery units but as far as I can see I need many more with the way scenario is structured right now.