Voulgiers

OrkConvert · Post by **OrkConvert** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:56 pm

I'm thinking of putting together a Medieval French starter army (as per Storm of Arrows) -- what is a Voulgier? I can't seem to find anything on this.

Also, French men-at-arms are knights -- so does that mean they are mounted? Why aren't there any infantry men-at-arms for the French?

Thanks,
OrkConvert

Morange · Post by **Morange** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:28 am

A Voulgier is a man using a voulge. It's a kind of polearm.

Have a look at this for some examples.
http://medieval.ucdavis.edu/20C/voulge.gif

Regarding the lack of foot men-at-arms, I don't think the French were particularly fond of dismounting in this period. If memory serves they were supposed to dismount for the attack at Agincourt but didn't and we all know how that ended....

Cheers,
Alex

OrkConvert · Post by **OrkConvert** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:38 am

Thanks for the link and info!

So would "regular" Men-at-Arms use this style weapon too -- or was it just the Voulgiers?

I guess I find it odd how there is a random unit of these guys in the starter army. I'm somewhat well-read on this era and never heard of them!?!?

Morange · Post by **Morange** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:14 am

I doubt you'd find many horsemen trying to fight with a voulge! It'd be very hard work and probably not that practical! I would think that by far and away the bulk of French mounted men-at-arms would have fought with lance and a secondary weapon - sword, mace, whatever.

At a guess, I'd say that the reason you'd not find voulgiers mentioned in literature is they probably wind up being called halberdiers or similar. That's a misnomer of sorts, but not a big one. They're similar in design and function.

Cheers,
Alex

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:27 am

Morange wrote:
Regarding the lack of foot men-at-arms, I don't think the French were particularly fond of dismounting in this period. If memory serves they were supposed to dismount for the attack at Agincourt but didn't and we all know how that ended....

French men-at-arms can always dismount if you want them to - see page 38 of the Storm of Arrows list book, 2nd bullet - dismounting was a very common tactic learnt from the English.

BTW at Agincourt only a few hundred stayed on horses the majority fought on foot.

OrkConvert · Post by **OrkConvert** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:55 am

So does it make sense to have BGs of dismounted French men-at-arms then too?

If the starter rules are 3 BGs of knights -- that would be 36 mounted figures.

English starter rules for dismounted men-at-arms are 3 BGs too -- but that's 48 figures.

So should dismounted French go 1 BG to 1 BG -- i.e. more infantry than cav when dismounted?

Thanks!

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:48 pm

You would indeed need more figures for the dismounted BGs than the mounted ones but the same number of bases.

rtaylor · Post by **rtaylor** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:34 pm

I've never yet seen the need to dismount knights. They're some bloody expensive HF given that their melee dice are halved when they dismount.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:26 pm

I've never yet seen the need to dismount knights. They're some bloody expensive HF given that their melee dice are halved when they dismount.

True, but if you are about to come up against wall to wall pikemen / spearmen, then Heavy Weapon foot with heavy armour are definitely a better option.

In fact you could possibly only dismount some, to create a hole which could then be expolited by the knights. It is a tactic I want to try out, once we get that bloody book delivered and people can use Greeks I will find out

OrkConvert · Post by **OrkConvert** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:38 pm

Does anyone know of any Voulgier miniatures in 28mm that I could check out? I've looked around but can't seem to find anything.

Thanks!

BillMc · Post by **BillMc** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:45 pm

If you want HF with the French, I would suggest keeping your knights mounted and gettting the Scots Allies. You get LB w/Swd and some HF w/HW - and a 25 pt Ally Gen to boot!