Idea for better unit capping

[Big Lou]

The issues with the current game engine is that the unit limits makes getting less that the top line unit very unpractical. My have any tank but Tigers? Why would you have a less sized arty? Here is my fix idea:

Units would have a "resource" value in addition to prestige cost. When you deploy units you can only deploy X amount of resources versus whole units. A basic INF unit would cost 1 resource while the Cav would cost 2. A Panzer 3 would cost 12 resource points while the Tiger would be 28. AAA would be cheaper than the full fighter. This would allow player move flexibility in army building and make the option of a simple cheap model a viable one. Might make recon worth getting, especially for Muti-player. The numbers I throw up there are just guesses.

I understand this is very unlikely to get fixed any time soon but maybe in Panzer Corps 2.....

What does the forum think of this?

[Horst]

A resource system could be done much simpler: set a prestige deploy amount for each scenario that uses the already existing prestige costs of units. No additional settings in the equipment files would be required.
E.g. using vanilla unit costs: if a scenario allows deploying 1000 prestige of (core) units, then you may place eight Panzer IB (8x123), or five Panzer IIC (5*192), or two Panzer IVH (2x486), or one Tiger (703) plus Grenadier 43 (227). Bonus units may still be free to deploy; auxilary units too if you have carried them over from a previous scenario.
Let’s say if one of two of your Panzer IVH units gets destroyed, you will have 514 prestige free again to deploy from your reserve or new purchase. That way you would never have too many strong units on the battlefield.

[JimmyC]

An even simpler way would be to limit the number of each type of unit you can field. Eg. max 2 tiger II's, etc.

The problem with doing this though (and the suggestions above), is that if they implemented it i don't think the later years would be playable. As it seems that you have to have the most optimal force to even stand a chance against the Russian hordes. They would need to modify the scenarios themselves to make them easier.

But i do agree that for Panzer Corps 2, such a rule should be implemented. It does get a bit boring when there is no variety in your forces and no incentive to have much variety (if you want to win).

[Egge]

IMHO this is a fundamental flaw in the game design.

Building the best core can be modeled using linear programming (though I'm not nerdy enough to actually do so;-) ) where prestige and unit cap are constraints.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_programming

However, only one of those constraints can be actually restricting. And only the restricting one is of any value. The other ones are, for all practical purposes, worthless.
In the vanilla campaing prestige is abundant and only unit cap is binding. Consequently there is no reason not to buy the best units.

But I don't think this can be mended at all. Either remove prestige or unit cap completely.

I actually liked how PG Scorched Earth worked, though the game awarded rare equipment way too generously.

[rezaf]

I think only Horst's idea has ANY chance of being implemented - because it requires only a minimal amount of extra work to be implemented.
The main issue would be that all existing content is basically balanced for top-of-the-cream units - even fielding three or four times the amount of PzIV's as Tiger II/Panthers would probably not allow you to win against the throng of enemy tanks in the later East DLCs. I guess it would be possible to make it an alternate limitation scheme, thus leaving existing content unaffected, OR to use very generous loadout assumptions (basically assuming the player will only force Tiger 2's etc.) when "converting" from the x units scheme ... but at this point, though, I don't think anything like this will be implemented in PzC - maybe in a sequel.

I'm hoping there'll be some improved implementation in the Warhammer game, because the tabletop limits the forces by the WH2k version of prestige cost. If there is, the modification might make the change to a PzC sequel or even back into the first PzC, depending highly on Rudankort's coding practices. We'll see.
_____
rezaf

[JimmyC]

Yes, it will be interesting to see how they implement it in the upcoming Warhammer 40k version. And actually W40k rules are very similar to what Horst is recommending (you have a set amount of “prestige” from which to build your core force for each battle, with you only being able to deploy XX prestige worth of units).

I prefer this way rather than restricting the total number of units that can be fielded.

[captainjack]

When I played ancient wargaming, it was usual for forces to be balanced by total points (roughly equivalent to max prestige spend is X), so you would have the equivalent of a choice between three Panzer IV or one Tiger 2. However it would require a big revision of the later campaigns to make this work - especially in the east against the numerous hordes of increasingly experienced and good quality troops.

Most of the changes introduced in 1.2 are reasonably visible and make it a bit less advisable to splash out on max overstrengthed best units at the first opportunity. Because of this they encourage a bit more balance and more thoughtful choice of unit types, upgrades and allocation of overstrength. However, the prestige cap acts behind the scenes and doesn't appear to be linked to standard difficulty levels, so can act without your knowledge.

If the hidden action of prestige cap bothers you but you like the idea of a prestige restriction, try switching off the cap (as per ThvN's notes) and have a go at adjusting the prestige slider on the advanced set up screen. At some level (for me about 75% or less) this should start to limit your ability to afford unlimited overstrength or instant upgrades, but you can better see how the restriction is acting. It is also easier to adjust if it is crippling you or is not restricting you enough. The intent of the prestige cap is met - a bit of extra challenge for more experienced players - but with a better visibility and easier control. You can also (again using ThvN's notes) adjust the upper and lower limits for when the cap cuts in and when it stops to better suit your style and ability. When I tried this, it seemed to be a lot of work to determine alternative levels so I took a different slightly easier path.