Bursting Through or not

[titanu]

In the picture the unit with the measuring stick (3 bases wide and 3 deep in places) has failed a CMT not to charge and therefor is charging the unit at the bottom of the picture.
It must burst trough the routing unit just to it's front. But when it bursts through there is no room behind it for the routers to move into.

The problem is also complicated by the unit by the side of the charges (with a white counter) has been caught in the flank by the unit pursuing the routers.

A number of solutions were mooted:
1a) Move the burst through unit behind both friendly units.
1b) Move the burst through unit behind both friendly units and count the non-charging unit as having been routed through and so dropping a cohesion level.
2) Move the non charging unit AND the enemy unit in contact with it back to allow the burst through unit room.
3) Disallow the involuntary charge.

Or are there any other ideas?

[grahambriggs]

I think probably option 2 is the best. However, the charge target looks to be light foot in the open. So that will evade and perhaps the charger will roll high thus removing the problem.

[titanu]

I think probably option 2 is the best. However, the charge target looks to be light foot in the open. So that will evade and perhaps the charger will roll high thus removing the problem.

No they are medium foot, it is not easy to see the 3 figures per base.

This was in fact the solution chosen by the Umpire.

[petedalby]

All covered on page 51.

[philqw78]

What if we are too lazy to look at page whatever it was?

[gozerius]

The routing troops cannot move behind the charging BG due to the presence of the friendly BG in contact with enemy.
So:

If it is impossible to shift friends back sufficiently to make room, the shock troops do not move at all and (if steady) drop to disrupted.

page 51, third bullet

[dave_r]

The routing troops cannot move behind the charging BG due to the presence of the friendly BG in contact with enemy.
So:

If it is impossible to shift friends back sufficiently to make room, the shock troops do not move at all and (if steady) drop to disrupted.

page 51, third bullet

What would happen if the shock troops were already disrupted then? Presumably nothing?

[grahambriggs]

The routing troops cannot move behind the charging BG due to the presence of the friendly BG in contact with enemy.
So:

If it is impossible to shift friends back sufficiently to make room, the shock troops do not move at all and (if steady) drop to disrupted.

page 51, third bullet

Oh good spot.

[gozerius]

Which brings up the question: Since the BG did not move can it then move in the maneuver phase?

[ravenflight]

Which brings up the question: Since the BG did not move can it then move in the maneuver phase?

I would say yes. In essence it has failed a compulsory 'attempt to not charge', and in doing so, as it CANNOT charge has dropped to disrupted, but is also free to move.

[dave_r]

Which brings up the question: Since the BG did not move can it then move in the maneuver phase?

No - because it has charged.

The wording on pg 76 defines what actions mean you can't make a manoever. Simply moving isn't one of them - if however you have charged then you can't make a manoever. In this case, you have charged, you simply haven't moved.

[gozerius]

But the BG has not charged. Its charge was blocked and is cancelled.

[petedalby]

I think you can read it either way.

But on Page 51 it clearly says the shock troops do not move at all having failed their test not to charge and being prevented from doing so. Now you could argue that refers just to the Impact phase or you can take it at face value.

And on Page 64 it clearly says that shock troops who successfully test not to charge are free to move in the manoeuvre phase.

So I think I read it the same as Dave - they can't move.

[RobKhan]

I agree with Dave - the disruption is due to the unsuccessful attempt to get at the enemy. If it has not charged why is it disrupted? It cannot perform a maneuver, because it is not under control as defined by the CMT result.
Robkhan

[gozerius]

Does this apply to other BGs that were blocked from performing a declared charge? I 've always played that a BG whose charge is cancelled due to intervening friends can still move in the maneuver phase.
I have understood "cancelled" to mean "is negated", ie. it never happened.

[petedalby]

Does this apply to other BGs that were blocked from performing a declared charge? I 've always played that a BG whose charge is cancelled due to intervening friends can still move in the maneuver phase.
I have understood "cancelled" to mean "is negated", ie. it never happened.

Surely it depends upon the circumstances. If a BG can't charge due to intervening friends then it's free to move. But if it failed a test not to charge and can't do so due to intervening friends then it cannot move.

[gozerius]

I don't see the difference. In both cases a charge was cancelled. Whether the charge was declared or involuntary, it should not make a difference.

[dave_r]

I don't see the difference. In both cases a charge was cancelled. Whether the charge was declared or involuntary, it should not make a difference.

In one case the Charge was cancelled.

In the other case the charge was not cancelled, but the BG didn't move.

[ravenflight]

I don't see the difference. In both cases a charge was cancelled. Whether the charge was declared or involuntary, it should not make a difference.

In one case the Charge was cancelled.

In the other case the charge was not cancelled, but the BG didn't move.

I can see both sides of this story, but am edging toward Dave's interpretation, not because of rules, but because of 'realism'.

[gozerius]

So what you are saying is that because the involuntary charger is prevented from moving due its inability to burst through the friendly BG in its path it cannot move in the maneuver phase, but a voluntary charger that cannot move because of, presumably, subsequently intervening friendly troops can move in the maneuver phase. The difference being that the involuntary charge is a compulsory move.