Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[Uhu]

I don't say because I want to show that I'm a genius (I think, more a very patient person, who likes challenges ), I just want to point on that, that it is even possible to make a DV on Rommel and without the bonus prestige (capturing Moscow, Malta, England, etc.), even 10-15 turns before the end. So, you have still much possibilities for victory.
If you play again, I always suggest to play the first 3 scenarios also again, if they were not played excellent - it makes a huge difference, with how many prestige, how many experienced units you go to the main battle.
Plus, maybe it is unorthodox for some players, but it is not a cheat, so you can do it: change your core units after Poland!
You will have anyway a lot of infantry and tanks too: so I suggest 4 fighters, 1 tank (the best hero/Pz IV at France already), and 4 guns! It makes the difference, thrust me!

I don't know on which difficulty you play, I still suggest: try again.
After 2-3 tries, you will know, on which front, about how many units are needed and when. I had absolute no problem in that way: the train and naval transport system was enough (sure, it was 90-95% used, so almost on the limit) to move all my units in the needed spots.
I know, that I long time said, that I will make a strategic guide (+an AAR), but once I will make it really.

I think I'm playing on Colonel. I think I will get the victory where I hold all objectives in Germany. I doubt if I could ever do any better than that but it certainly has been fun playing the mod.

[MartyWard]

I don't say because I want to show that I'm a genius (I think, more a very patient person, who likes challenges ), I just want to point on that, that it is even possible to make a DV on Rommel and without the bonus prestige (capturing Moscow, Malta, England, etc.), even 10-15 turns before the end. So, you have still much possibilities for victory.
If you play again, I always suggest to play the first 3 scenarios also again, if they were not played excellent - it makes a huge difference, with how many prestige, how many experienced units you go to the main battle.
Plus, maybe it is unorthodox for some players, but it is not a cheat, so you can do it: change your core units after Poland!
You will have anyway a lot of infantry and tanks too: so I suggest 4 fighters, 1 tank (the best hero/Pz IV at France already), and 4 guns! It makes the difference, thrust me!

I don't know on which difficulty you play, I still suggest: try again.
After 2-3 tries, you will know, on which front, about how many units are needed and when. I had absolute no problem in that way: the train and naval transport system was enough (sure, it was 90-95% used, so almost on the limit) to move all my units in the needed spots.
I know, that I long time said, that I will make a strategic guide (+an AAR), but once I will make it really.

I think I'm playing on Colonel. I think I will get the victory where I hold all objectives in Germany. I doubt if I could ever do any better than that but it certainly has been fun playing the mod.

Can you deploy 4 air units in Barbrossa? I mean are there spots to place them?

[ThvN]

BTW is there a way to know how many core units you currently have deployed?

To expand on what BiteNibbleChomp said, you can also try to open up the reserve units list (F8: 'Toggle Reserve List), at the top it will give numbers for units deployed and how many core slots are available. Maybe that will work as well?

Train transport

To comment on the movement rates and redeployment speed by train etc., I've been reading through a lot of info about this for a mod, so I can't resist sharing some info I dug up. Some divisions where moved from the Eastern Front to France during the war, but these were depleted units (below half strength) that had to be refitted. I've managed to dig up very detailed info on the journey of the 15th Infantry Division which was moved from Vyasma to the Bordeaux (Southwest of France) by train.

This was a fairly lightweight infantry unit, they did not take many horses/vehicles with them, and only moved most of the 6500 men and their personal weapons. Note that a full-strength division would have 17.000 men. BTW, one train was hit by partisans near Smolensk, a railroad mine caused more than a dozen casualties and some materiel losses.

It took a total of 20 trains, which left Vyasma 3 times a day, so it took a week to get everybody out of Vyasma. The first transport left on 28th April 1942, and the trains arrived at the destination in the period of the 5th - 14th May 1942. So it took 16 days for a half-strength light division while leaving most horses and vehicles behind. This was mid-1942 so the journey would have been relatively easy (no air attacks, decent infrastructure).

Sea transport

There is plenty of info on shipping units; the Germans moved part of a Panzer division from Patras (Greece) to Taranto (Italy), a distance of roughly 500km. Loading the ships started on 13th of May 1941, the first three ships with most of the units had arrived on 20 May 1941.

On a larger scale, the Allied convoys from New York/Halifax (Nova Scotia) to Liverpool took 15-18 days, but add to that the time to load/unload the ships, which was days or even weeks in harbours with poor facilities. I've seen an average unloading time of 'about 4 days' for a single 4000-ton cargo ship (the Allied 'Liberty Ship' could carry 10.000 tons).

You can see how this loading/unloading can add up quickly to the time needed, and harbours can only handle a limited number of ships at the same time. An example: Tripoli, the largest Italian port in Libya could handle 6 ships at the same time: so let's say a convoy of six average ships could be unloaded in a few days, but every extra ship would have to wait a long time. So calculating the time to ship a unit somewhere depends on a lot of factors. The time it takes to sail somewhere is easily estimated and fairly constant, but loading/unloading times can vary immensely.


On a personal note, I'm still busy with tweaking movement/terrain, but slowwwly . I've added extra movement modes to test, I now have a total of 21 instead of the stock 13, and all seems fine. It really helps to distinguish some types better, but I need to better finetune some movement tables.

[MartyWard]

[It took a total of 20 trains, which left Vyasma 3 times a day, so it took a week to get everybody out of Vyasma. The first transport left on 28th April 1942, and the trains arrived at the destination in the period of the 5th - 14th May 1942. So it took 16 days for a half-strength light division while leaving most horses and vehicles behind. This was mid-1942 so the journey would have been relatively easy (no air attacks, decent infrastructure).

I never thought of checking the reserve list, mostly because I never had any

Regarding the trains, that is roughly 1 turn in the game to transfer. It would take 3 moves plus the turn to move to the city you load in to do in PC, or approximately 2 months. It's not the loading or unloading that I dont get, it's the slow speed ofthe trains! I'm not sure if the train MP's can be increased but in this game it would sure help.

[ThvN]

I never thought of checking the reserve list, mostly because I never had any

I haven't played this mod, but even in the stock game there are moments where this becomes a sad reality. I made this discovery when I lost multiple units in a single turn and wanted to know how many reserve units I could/would deploy before hitting the max unit limit.

This was when I realized my usual difficulty level was no longer compatible with the 1.20 rules.

[Uhu]

From v 1.1 there are enough air deployement hexes in Barbarossa.

Can you deploy 4 air units in Barbrossa? I mean are there spots to place them?

[BiteNibbleChomp]

McGuba, Would you be interested in me adding the Schwimmpanzer II to Battlefield Europe v1.4?

- BNC

[McGuba]

I do plan to add a couple new units for v1.4, but your Schwimmpanzer II is currently not among them for a number of reasons, sorry.

By the way, why did you made it multipurpose, instead of adding a new amphibious movement type, like bebro did in the IJA mod for the LVTs and the Type-2 Ka-Mi? I think that would make more sense for a unit like that.

[Akkula]

Mcguba do you have a release date for v1.4?. I am eager to try your mod again after my failure first time :p

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I do plan to add a couple new units for v1.4, but your Schwimmpanzer II is currently not among them for a number of reasons, sorry.

By the way, why did you made it multipurpose, instead of adding a new amphibious movement type, like bebro did in the IJA mod for the LVTs and the Type-2 Ka-Mi? I think that would make more sense for a unit like that.

I wanted it to go in.

Also, I haven't actually got any idea on how to add new unit types as yet, so it never actually crossed my mind. I originally had the idea that it could go to the coast in naval form, and then drive on from the ocean (I learnt that land units could walk onto land from the ocean when I started modding in 2012, but hadn't yet learnt how to add landing craft) to the land. That didn't work, so it became what it is now.

- BNC

[ThvN]

If you need help on how to mod movement types, I can probably give all the info you need.

I've been trying to mod a lot of things related with movement and terrain, added a whole lot of extra movement types to test out, but this testing is going painfully slow. Perhaps it would be a good idea if I shared some info for others who are interested in modding those things but without everybody re-inventing the wheel and having to make every mistake like I did.

Confession: my perfectionism was triggered after AC came out and I discovered that bridge engineers (infantry) used the same movement type as the (tracked) Churchill bridgelayer tank. Improving/correcting this got a bit out of hand... I even have tried two different 'air' movement types! (Guess why I thought I needed those...)

[Akkula]

To make the "air bridge" to Stalingrad (?)

[BiteNibbleChomp]

If you need help on how to mod movement types, I can probably give all the info you need.

I've been trying to mod a lot of things related with movement and terrain, added a whole lot of extra movement types to test out, but this testing is going painfully slow. Perhaps it would be a good idea if I shared some info for others who are interested in modding those things but without everybody re-inventing the wheel and having to make every mistake like I did.

Confession: my perfectionism was triggered after AC came out and I discovered that bridge engineers (infantry) used the same movement type as the (tracked) Churchill bridgelayer tank. Improving/correcting this got a bit out of hand... I even have tried two different 'air' movement types! (Guess why I thought I needed those...)

I'm happy to discuss this - just post it on the Schwimmpanzer Forum
(viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50707)

- BNC

[ThvN]

OK! I'll get some sleep first (all the neighbourhood soccer fans have finally quieted down) and will make a write-up with some examples.

To make the "air bridge" to Stalingrad (?)

That is an interesting idea! Actually, I am experimenting with a lot of things, one of them is for 'high' and 'low' altitude planes, and that is why I created the extra air movement. The 'high' air movement is the standard PzC 1 point per hex, but the 'low' movement costs extra points for mountains, so if there are several mountain hexes to cross it would be cheaper to fly around them. It might be extreme to add this difference, but I've already added so many extra movement types that I couldn't resist. Still testing, but this movement mode is suitable for planes like gliders, low-flying tactical aircraft, zeppelins, helicopters etc. so I left it in.

My idea is to mod a fighter so it is normally a 'high' flying airplane that can't attack ground targets, but it can be switched into a tactical bomber ('low' altitude) to make strafing passes. But because it is now in the tactical bomber class it can't escort other planes anymore, becomes more vulnerable to ground fire and has slightly decreased air combat values. It's interesting, but difficult to test because the AI seems very keen on keeping them in the 'fighter' mode all the time, so I'm still trying to establish if and when the AI will switch to the ground attack mode. If I can reliably predict when the AI will switch, it becomes easier to make some good stats for the airplanes.

BTW, your Moscow map looks very nice!

[Akkula]

OK! I'll get some sleep first (all the neighbourhood soccer fans have finally quieted down) and will make a write-up with some examples.

To make the "air bridge" to Stalingrad (?)

That is an interesting idea! Actually, I am experimenting with a lot of things, one of them is for 'high' and 'low' altitude planes, and that is why I created the extra air movement. The 'high' air movement is the standard PzC 1 point per hex, but the 'low' movement costs extra points for mountains, so if there are several mountain hexes to cross it would be cheaper to fly around them. It might be extreme to add this difference, but I've already added so many extra movement types that I couldn't resist. Still testing, but this movement mode is suitable for planes like gliders, low-flying tactical aircraft, zeppelins, helicopters etc. so I left it in.

My idea is to mod a fighter so it is normally a 'high' flying airplane that can't attack ground targets, but it can be switched into a tactical bomber ('low' altitude) to make strafing passes. But because it is now in the tactical bomber class it can't escort other planes anymore, becomes more vulnerable to ground fire and has slightly decreased air combat values. It's interesting, but difficult to test because the AI seems very keen on keeping them in the 'fighter' mode all the time, so I'm still trying to establish if and when the AI will switch to the ground attack mode. If I can reliably predict when the AI will switch, it becomes easier to make some good stats for the airplanes.

BTW, your Moscow map looks very nice!

Wow, I never realized how much can be done regarding the movements modding , it´s amazing all your work around the different altitudes for the planes . I must say you inspired me to do something similar to the amphibious T-37 .
And thanks for the Moscow compliment!, actually what you can see in that screenshot it´s 2/3 of the city, the other 1/3 is nice as well .

[ThvN]

First version of the movement modding guide is up, I'll improve it a bit and stick it in a separate thread later:

viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50707#p479524

[BiteNibbleChomp]

bumping topic

Nothing seems to be going on with this mod. What's happening with v1.4?

- BNC (I'm still on the France scenario, but the great Khan will be very annoyed if I don't finish making his army!)

[McGuba]

First version of the movement modding guide is up, I'll improve it a bit and stick it in a separate thread later:

Thanks, it is indeed very informative. It also helped me to fix an issue in the mod with the movement of the wheeled units: in stock PzC they had "-20" in desert which means all wheeled units could move 5 hexes in the desert regardless of their max movement in normal (clear) terrain which is not good. So I just changed it to 1.5 so that normal wheeld units such as the Opel Blitz can still move 5 hexes in desert, while slower trucks move less in desert as well.

bumping topic

Nothing seems to be going on with this mod. What's happening with v1.4?

- BNC (I'm still on the France scenario, but the great Khan will be very annoyed if I don't finish making his army!)

I am slowly making progress - mainly fixing issues like the above, and several others reported by players here or by PM or e-mail.

[ThvN]

Thanks, it is indeed very informative. It also helped me to fix an issue in the mod with the movement of the wheeled units: in stock PzC they had "-20" in desert which means all wheeled units could move 5 hexes in the desert regardless of their max movement in normal (clear) terrain which is not good. So I just changed it to 1.5 so that normal wheeld units such as the Opel Blitz can still move 5 hexes in desert, while slower trucks move less in desert as well.

You're welcome, I wanted to wait with posting it but I was going out of town for a while, so I went ahead in case some people would use it already. This -20 was one of the issues I had with the stock movement values; it seems I wasn't the only one, glad you could fix it. The biggest issue for me was the towed and foot movement, esp. the fact that infantry (regular or heavy) had 2 movement through desert, making regular infantry very unattractive.

I'll try to add some more useful info in the near future. Although I'm still catching up on work-related stuff for the next few days.

[McGuba]

The biggest issue for me was the towed and foot movement, esp. the fact that infantry (regular or heavy) had 2 movement through desert, making regular infantry very unattractive.

I'll try to add some more useful info in the near future. Although I'm still catching up on work-related stuff for the next few days.

Yeah, I like your idea of changing leg movement in desert as well, but I am afraid it would brake the existing balance in this mod so I have to think about it a bit more. Also I think most players got used to the fact that infantry moves slower in desert as it is the case in the AC expansion so it might be an unwelcome change for some players...