Is a general allowed to join a BG of Scythed Chariots?

durrati · Post by **durrati** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:05 pm

Is a general allowed to lead from the front a suicidal charge of Scythed Chariots?

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:44 pm

Oh yeah. It might not be that suicidal for him though.

verybizzyb · Post by **verybizzyb** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:20 pm

I'd be happy for you to do it...as soon as you showed me an historical precedent.

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:23 pm

A skim through all the references in the rules to what commanders can and cant do, and about scythed chariots, seems to suggest its ok for a general to fight with these beasties!
I think he'd only be subject to the usual commander death rolls and then he'd relocate as per the rules if/when the S Cs are removed.
It would seem a fair if historically cheesey tactic and would slightly boost the S C due to rerolls!

Martin

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:49 pm

I think there was a thread on this question some time ago. The conclusion was that the general in the front rank of the scythed chariots represents him urging the chariot drivers to hold on just a little bit longer before jumping off in to aim their chariots that much better.

Seems reasonable enough to me, especially since it does put the general at some risk.

Marc

verybizzyb · Post by **verybizzyb** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:40 pm

babyshark wrote:I think there was a thread on this question some time ago. The conclusion was that the general in the front rank of the scythed chariots represents him urging the chariot drivers to hold on just a little bit longer before jumping off in to aim their chariots that much better.

Seems reasonable enough to me, especially since it does put the general at some risk.

Marc

And just how many Ancient Generals indulged in this proto-Ben Hur activity?...come on, these are supposed to be historical rules, let's TRY and play historically otherwise the same 'cheese curse' that struck down DBM for so many will eat away at FoG.

durrati · Post by **durrati** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:49 pm

babyshark wrote:I think there was a thread on this question some time ago. The conclusion was that the general in the front rank of the scythed chariots represents him urging the chariot drivers to hold on just a little bit longer before jumping off in to aim their chariots that much better.

Seems reasonable enough to me, especially since it does put the general at some risk.

Marc

Am aware that in a 'top down' set of rules most things can be explained. Being close to a load of chariots that are doing what 30 mph? and having an effect on when all them drivers may or may not jump out might seem reasonable to some people. Seems like a load of cock to me however.

Yes, it does put the general at 'some' risk - if the enemy unti managers to score 2 hits and then throws a double 6 he gets killed. Considering the unit he is with though is in effect commiting suicide this does not seem like very much risk at all, especially as he then just gets to stroll off without a worry or care in the world.

So the rules say it can be done - I will not try to stop people doing it if they decide that they want to - 'cheesy' dosn't cover it though really, this one is the whole board, with a few slices of apples like what you get in resturants that think they are posh. And a good glass of Port.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:41 pm

Well I did it tonight because I could - didn't do me any good though as the enemy didn't fail any CTs

durrati · Post by **durrati** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:06 am

Nik

Might not of done you any good as the enemy had lucky dice. It did not however do you any harm. If a general joins and leads from the front a suicide squad then he should be subject to the same harms as them.

Luddite · Post by **Luddite** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:51 am

How do you find scythed chariots perform?

We tried them out with our Seleucids and we're greatly unimpressed.

You HAVE to put a 'delivery commander' with them just to get them forward, otherwise they crawl along at 4MU.

Once actually in combat they seemed to basically bounce off and dinintegrate...

Now then, i don't think they should actually kill much, BUT they did as i understand it, disrupt enemy formations so...poor combat POAs but automatic cohesion drop (like a flank hit) would've rpresented them better (for my tastes).

I don't think they'll be making much of an appearance in my future armies..

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:49 pm

I found them suitably ineffective

I think the best use of them, as historically, is to prepare the way for other troops so you need to have a BG to follow them in. With 3 dice per base at impact they have a good chance of winning the Impact phase and focing a CT which may cause an enemy drop, however, to be really effective you need to cause 2 drops as the enemy have a chance to recover in the enxt bound before any following troops get in.

Basically you need yo get a bit lucky and can't expect them to hurt good troops - sounds about right historically IMO.

MadBanker · Post by **MadBanker** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:27 pm

Luddite wrote:How do you find scythed chariots perform?

Crap (in all three games I played with them)... And it's very well this way.
There are (almost?) no records in history of a battle where they did play an effective role. They were at best ineffective and at worst caused a disaster for their own troops.
You can say their rout through the cavalry on the left flank was the beginning of the Seleucid disaster at Magnesia: With no troops covering their left flank, the phalanx had no choice but to form the square, with the elephants and lights in the middle. Unable to move, they were showered by missile troops until the elephant could take no more and ran amok through the phalanx. The now broken phalanx was then engaged by the legions, who before that moment where VERY RELUCTANT to engage combat as the flat terrain was favourable to phalanx warfare.
One could wonder "what if Antiochus had not placed such trust in an outdated tool of warfare..." Maybe the Romans would have known defeat...