Later Medieval German list advice

[DeletedUser1736506546]

I'd like to begin by saying that I have yet to play a game of FoG (I am not part of an established historical wargaming group currently). I have some Essex Later Imperialist models (I still need more), and I'm trying to organize them into an effective fighting force. Do the members of this forum feel that the Later Medieval German list is more effective as a predominately infantry force, or is a cavalry-heavy army the stronger option? Compare these two lists, for example (the units in each list are in order of march):

1. Crossbowmen - LF, Unprotected, Average, Drilled, Crossbow ------ 6 bases
2. Handgunners - LF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Firearm ------6 bases
3. Free Canton Spearmen - MF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen ------ 8 bases
4. Mounted Crossbowmen - Cv, Armored, Average, Drilled, Crossbow, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
5. Mounted Crossbowmen - Cv, Armored, Average, Drilled, Crossbow, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
6. Pikemen - HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen ------ 8 bases
7. Pikemen - HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen ------ 8 bases
8. Mercenary Men-at-arms - Kn, Heavily Armored, Average, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
9. Mercenary Men-at-arms - Kn, Heavily Armored, Average, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
10. Mercenary Men-at-arms - Kn, Heavily Armored, Average, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
11. Mercenary Men-at-arms - Kn, Heavily Armored, Average, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
4 x TC


1. Crossbowmen - LF, Unprotected, Average, Drilled, Crossbow ------ 6 bases
2. Handgunners - LF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Firearm ------6 bases
3. Crossbowmen - MF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Crossbow ------ 8 bases
4. Free Canton Spearmen - MF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen ------ 8 bases
5. Free Canton Spearmen - MF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen ------ 8 bases
6. Mounted Crossbowmen - Cv, Armored, Average, Drilled, Crossbow, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
7. Pikemen - HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen ------ 8 bases
8. Pikemen - HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen ------ 8 bases
9. Pikemen - HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen ------ 8 bases
10. Halberdiers - HF, Armored, Average, Drilled, Heavy Weapon ------ 6 bases
11. Mercenary Men-at-arms - Kn, Heavily Armored, Average, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
12. Mercenary Men-at-arms - Kn, Heavily Armored, Average, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
4 x TC



Which list do you think is stronger? Are there any obvious changes that should be made to either list that would make them more effective within each list's original idea? Are small units of average drilled knights worthy of being the core of an army? Is the fact that nothing at all is superior something which ought to be addressed?

One other thing...I've played other wargames in which the movement difference betwwen cavalry and infantry is much greater. When the two troop types move at drastically different speeds the cavalry and infantry often do not end up working in conjunction with one another until quite late in the game (when everyone moves forward at once from the beginning the attack is piecemeal and too many flanks are exposed). This seems to be less of a concern in FoG due to cavalry and infantry's moving at speeds more similar to one another's. Am I correct in assuming that, because of the relative similarity of movement rate amongst the troop types, that pretty much any ratio of infantry to cavalry can potentially work in FoG?

Thank you very much.

[richnz]

With the Med Germans you have 2 options really- lots of knights or lots of pikes. I don't think you can try and do both within the same list.

Your first version has too many BGs of average knights I think. Being in 4s makes them especially brittle. Either go with superiors or take them in 6s.

[hammy]

With the Med Germans you have 2 options really- lots of knights or lots of pikes. I don't think you can try and do both within the same list.

Your first version has too many BGs of average knights I think. Being in 4s makes them especially brittle. Either go with superiors or take them in 6s.

I suspect that the first time you use average knights in BG's of 4 will be the last. While they are maneuverable and can be easily rear supported the auto break on 2 bases is a killer. Average knights in BG's of 6 with a general are not at all bad.

The mounted crossbow are good support too.

I have found small BG's of drilled MF crossbow to be really rather effective in medieval armies.

The first list without the pike, with perhaps some defensive spear instead to provide rear support for the knights would be decent. The second list with perhaps the knights changed to a BG of 6 and if you can find the points a BG of cavalry lancers (possibly lose a couple of bases of MF crossbow to help find the points) would als be OK.

[DeletedUser1736506546]

I appreciate the advice. Something like this, perhaps?


1. Crossbowmen - LF, Unprotected, Average, Drilled, Crossbow ------ 6 bases
2. Handgunners - LF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Firearm ------ 6 bases
3. Free Canton Spearmen - MF, Protected, Average, Undrilled, Offensive Spearmen ------ 8 bases
4. Free Canton Spearmen - MF, Protected, Average, Undrilled, Offensive Spearmen ------ 6 bases
5. Mounted Crossbowmen - CV, Armored, Average, Drilled, Crossbow, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
6. Lighter Men-at-arms - CV, Armored, Average, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
7. Pikemen - HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen ------ 8 bases
8. Pikemen - HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen ------ 8 bases
9. Pikemen - HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen ------ 8 bases
10. Halberdiers - HF, Armored, Average, Drilled, Heavy Weapon ------ 6 bases
11. Mounted Crossbowmen - CV, Armored, Average, Drilled, Crossbow, Swordsmen ------ 4 bases
12. Mercenary Men-at-arms - Kn, H. Armored, Average, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen ------ 6 bases
4 x TC


I went ahead and dropped the entire MF crossbow unit in favor of the lighter men-at-arms (I know it was stated that small MF crossbow units are valuable). Was this wise? The only way I can see keeping both the MF crossbowmen and the lighter men-at-arms is by dropping a BG of free canton spearmen. I suppose if I have my decision making down to which two of those three units to use I'm in decent shape. Thank you again.

[rbodleyscott]

6 MF crossbows are compulsory in the list.

[sagji]

I went ahead and dropped the entire MF crossbow unit in favor of the lighter men-at-arms (I know it was stated that small MF crossbow units are valuable). Was this wise?

No - the list requires you to have at least 6 bases of MF crossbow.

[DeletedUser1736506546]

I see. That solves that dilemma.

Thank you.