Declaration of gharge question

[HarryKonst]

FoG 2.0.I had a BG of Cav. lancers and wanted to make a charge against two enemy BGs, one LH BG and one Cav. lancers BG. The two enemy BGs were one next to other with partially side edge to side edge contact. The LH was in my 'legal' charge range (5 MU exactly), but I could contact the Cav. BG only by stepping forward bases (It was 1 MU further away).
So, the question is ; Is the enemy Cav. consider to be a 'legal' charge target, so stays in place and waits, or since the L.Horse BG will evade and my actual charge range can't contact the enemy Cav. this is not qualified as a 'legal' charge target and it can intercept before I make the charge?
The relevant rule is in page 56 under the title; 'Declaration of charges'. There it says; 'Any enemy BG in the path of a charge counts as being charged if it can be 'legally' contacted, even if it was not one of the originally declared targets of the charge. This applies even if it can only be contacted by bases stepping forward.'
The rule seems quite clear in my opinion, but my opponent believes that since the L.H has no option but to evade, the 'contact by stepping bases forward' phase isn't a possibility, so the Cavalry BG is not a 'legal' charge target and therefore it can intercept. So, I would like to ask which is the correct interpretation of the rule. How do you play the rule in U.K? Thanks-Harry

[zoltan]

I think the stepping forward rule is a red herring (i.e. it is not relevant in your example).

In my opinion your situation works like this:

1. the enemy LH is within 5 MUs of your cav so it is a legal charge target for your cav
2. your cav declares a charge (it has at least one legal target)
3. at this point the enemy cav are not a legal charge target because it is too far away (approx. 6 MUs you say)
4. however your cav is permitted to declare a wheel as part of its charge (with certain restrictions) and this has the possibility of placing the enemy cav in the eventual path of your cav as it chases the LH
5. in the event that the enemy LH evade your cav will throw a variable dice roll
6. if your cav throws a 5 or 6 it will have sufficient movement to hit the enemy cav because the latter is now within the charge path and movement distance of your cav. Thus the enemy cav have become a target of your charge
7. if you throw less than a 5 on the dice, your cav will stop short of the enemy cav and it will not become a target of your charge

[kal5056]

Zoltan you failed yo answer main question.

Can the cavalry intercept.

If the cavalry are not with 5 inches at the declaration of charge then they are free to move forward and intercept

If they choose not to intercept they may become a target when the evade and vmd are rolled.


Gino
SMAC.

[AlanCutner]

In my view the cv are not a charge target for the reasons explained by zoltan. Therefore they can intercept if the declared charge enters their intercept zone.

[HarryKonst]

Thank you all for the replies. This is a common situation in FoG, so its really useful to know the correct way of playing the game.

[petedalby]

From the scenario described FWIW I agree with Alan.

[gozerius]

A BG that could be contacted by stepping forward is a charge target, even though undeclared. Whether a BG can intercept is determined before any evades, so at the moment of decision for the cav, it is still in the charge path of the charger. This is different than a BG which may be unmasked by evaders, because a masked BG is not a target until it is unmasked.

[philqw78]

If the Cavalry is a target before evades, which it appears it is, it cannot intercept. So I agree with Gozerius.

V2 has muddied this as the LH must evade

[AlanCutner]

A BG that could be contacted by stepping forward is a charge target, even though undeclared.

The cavalry could not be contacted by a step forward because the LH will not be there. The LH don't even have an option under V2.

[philqw78]

Like I said V2 has muddied this.

Intercepts (and targets) are decided before evades happen.

[petedalby]

If the Cavalry is a target before evades, which it appears it is, it cannot intercept. So I agree with Gozerius.

Under V1 I would agree Phil - the LH could elect to stand and a step forward into the cavalry would have been possible.

Under V2 the LH must evade - unless it is in terrain - and so no step forward is possible. AFAICS the cavalry is not a charge target and can therefore elect to Intercept.

[philqw78]

P67

A BG that is charged cannot intercept. This applies even if a charge was not declared on it, if it is in the path of a charge and would be contacted (including by step forwards) if no friendly BG evaded.

If they evade or not does not matter, even if they must

[petedalby]

I take it all back - the 'if no friendly BG evaded' seems pretty clear. (Although still slightly bizarre since the LH must evade!)

Thanks Phil.

[zoltan]

I take it all back - the 'if no friendly BG evaded' seems pretty clear. (Although still slightly bizarre since the LH must evade!)

Thanks Phil.

Er, so where does this leave us?
The enemy cav is free to intercept because it was/is not a target of the charge in any circumstances and the chargers will cross its path.

[gozerius]

The cav cannot intercept because it is a target of a charge when testing for eligibility to intercept.

[AlanCutner]

I also am persuaded to change my view. The cavalry appear to be a target of the charge, even though the step forward will never actually occur. Therefore they cannot intercept.

I wonder though whether this was authors intention, or just something they missed.

[grahambriggs]

I also am persuaded to change my view. The cavalry appear to be a target of the charge, even though the step forward will never actually occur. Therefore they cannot intercept.

I wonder though whether this was authors intention, or just something they missed.

Seems to be what the rules say. Not sure on the intent.

Of course, if the chargers roll a 6 for their variable move distance they'll contact anyway (as a 6 adds 2MU - the same as the step forward distance). And if they roll a 1 they'll still be within 4MU so could get charged. Of course, much might happen in the movement phase.

[pyruse]

It doesn't seem unreasonable from a real-world POV - if the cavalry can be contacted by a step forward, they must be pretty close to their LH, and in the confusion of the Light Horse evading would make interception difficult.
More to the point, why do they need to intercept? The chargers are sitting right in front of them. They can just charge themselves in their own turn.

[AlanCutner]

More to the point, why do they need to intercept? The chargers are sitting right in front of them. They can just charge themselves in their own turn.

They might be able to force the fight at a better position, eg. make it easier for another BG to flank charge next turn.

[philqw78]

Er, so where does this leave us?

Exactly where we were before you muddied the waters with your outrageous presumption that the authors would consider an amendment to one rule affecting a different one.