BG formation change with non homogenious BGs

Fugu · Post by **Fugu** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:07 pm

For example you have a BG with 1/2 defensive spear and 1/2 crossbow. You start with 2 ranks of xbow in the front while the armies close but at some point you want to bring the defensive spear to the front while protecting the xbow.

At what point can you make this change? A discussion with the local group came the agreement that you could make the swap during the charge phase. Reasoning behind it was that since the defending BG is assumed to be counter charging or preparing to receive, the BG would be automatically adjusting in response.

sagji · Post by **sagji** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:51 pm

The only way to make the change is in a series of expansions and contractions.
You certainly can't do it in the impact phase as the only voluntary change of formation permitted is the chargers dropping a single file to avoid friends.

Also there is little or no point in having the crossbow at the front as they can shoot at full effect from the second rank - they are the first shooting rank so get 1 dice per base.

Fugu · Post by **Fugu** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:00 pm

The reason for having 2 ranks would be to have both ranks firing. The reason for changing up defensive spear even if you do only have one rank of xbow in the second rank is that spear gains no bonus for having just one rank. You'd want to adjust to setup a second rank at some point.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:33 pm

I believe the reason that there is no allowance for swapping ranks in the rules is that it does not appear to have happened historically.

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:50 am

I think to move into the formation you want at impact, in the turn before, you are going to have to contract from eg a four-wide two-deep BG with the spear in front and the Xbow behind to a 2 wide 4 deep formation. Even then, I'm not sure that you don't end up with your four ranks being, from the front, spear Xbow spear Xbow!

Martin

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:26 am

THe correct answer is: Don't do it

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:54 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:THe correct answer is: Don't do it

Unless you are playing against me, on the top table of a big tournament. Then you should definitely do it. Across your entire battleline.

Marc

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:26 pm

I have done this type of thing on occasion with Medieval Danish HW / CB battle groups.

My understanding is that if you deploy with:

HHCC
HHCC

You can contract to:

HH
HH
CC
CC

And then expand to:

HHHH
CCCC

I am not sure if the initial formation can contract to

HH
CC
HH
CC

although it would just be plausible if the formation advanced to get to the new formation. My suspicion is that it is pushing it.

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:48 pm

I agree with your first three diagrams, hammy!

But I was suggesting that if you start deployed as in your third diagram then contract, you end up as in your fourth, not as in your second.

If you have a BG that has 50/50 close fighters/missile troops and for some reason want to get the missile men out the way when it comes to impact etc, then I guess your first diagram is the option to take?

Martin

Fugu · Post by **Fugu** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:15 pm

So basically then the only way to do a supported XBow formation is to have:

HHHH
XXXX

and just leave it like that or to make the first rank Defensive Spear/XBow.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:25 pm

Fugu wrote:So basically then the only way to do a supported XBow formation is to have:

HHHH
XXXX

and just leave it like that or to make the first rank Defensive Spear/XBow.

I think this is the only sensible way to do it. Formations such as:

HHXX
HHXX

are possible, as Hammy has demonstrated in an earlier post. But they are much more likely to abruptly become part of a pants moment. Plus, that formation only gets to shoot with 3 dice, whereas

HHHH
XXXX

gets to shoot with 4 dice.

Marc

Fugu · Post by **Fugu** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:18 am

babyshark wrote: I think this is the only sensible way to do it. Formations such as:

HHXX
HHXX

are possible, as Hammy has demonstrated in an earlier post. But they are much more likely to abruptly become part of a pants moment. Plus, that formation only gets to shoot with 3 dice, whereas

HHHH
XXXX

gets to shoot with 4 dice.

Marc

How does formation 2 get 4 dice? All the xbows are second rank, only getting 1 dice per 2 stands.

rtaylor · Post by **rtaylor** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:31 am

Fugu wrote:How does formation 2 get 4 dice? All the xbows are second rank, only getting 1 dice per 2 stands.

The first shooting rank gets 1 dice per base. Since the front rank doesn't shoot, the second rank is the first shooting rank.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:12 pm

rtaylor wrote:
Fugu wrote:How does formation 2 get 4 dice? All the xbows are second rank, only getting 1 dice per 2 stands.
The first shooting rank gets 1 dice per base. Since the front rank doesn't shoot, the second rank is the first shooting rank.

This is a very important point often overlooked.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:23 pm

hazelbark wrote:
rtaylor wrote:
Fugu wrote:How does formation 2 get 4 dice? All the xbows are second rank, only getting 1 dice per 2 stands.
The first shooting rank gets 1 dice per base. Since the front rank doesn't shoot, the second rank is the first shooting rank.

This is a very important point often overlooked.

Although it is clearly explained on page 91 of the rules, with an example.