I'm not sure if you would call it new content more changes in functionality. There are lots of things as you read around that were of critical importance in WWII, that are almost never modelled well. As Examples
3D terrain and effective LOS. I would like to see high ground affecting all units LOS and similarly LOS being interrupted by terrain features, forests, other high ground etc.
Reliablilty. Units invariably work perfectly, where as in reality reliability issues were of huge importance. From the German side the Tiger and the Panther were both plagued by issues, while from the Russian side check out the battle of Brody and how many T-38 and KV tanks just didn't make it to the battle or were lost/abandoned because they had broken down. A graphic of a Panther with smoke pouring from the back where the transmission has seized and little engineer whacking it with a wrench would be classic.
Supply. I haven't played a game which models supply issues well since The Battle for Normandy, which SSI produce way back in time, well before even Panzer General. Just look at how the German's got in a mess at Stalingrad and over extended supply lines were a major part of it (that and Hitler refusing to supply enough winter gear despite how that had worked for him the year before outside Moscow). In fact one of the big reasons German panzer divisions were so successful in 41-42 despite the T-38 being a better tank on paper came down to supplies and support, German divisions had 2-3 times as many trucks providing logistic and support as their Russian foe's. I would love to see the effects of cutting lines of supply modelled effectively, I don't mean getting a unit next to an opponent, or hitting it with a strat bomber, I mean getting behind them, cutting their lines of supply and watching them just fade away and surrender.
The simplest way of modelling reliability is to go into the equipment file and reduce the fuel of vehicles known to be unreliable. Your tank is just as immobile with the drive wheel broken or the gear stick missing as when it is stuck in a pothole or out of fuel. I still reckon move heroes on vehicles are really due to above-average maintenance crews so you spend less time fixing it and more moving.
Supply is already constrained be some desert terrain, and weather conditions so it should be possible to modify terrain or weather settings to restrict it in other ground types. In principle you could simulate working behind enemy lines by applying similar constraints. As to whether you could apply this to particular areas of the map or only to some scenarios I don't know - my modding skills are presently rather limited.
captainjack wrote:The simplest way of modelling reliability is to go into the equipment file and reduce the fuel of vehicles known to be unreliable. Your tank is just as immobile with the drive wheel broken or the gear stick missing as when it is stuck in a pothole or out of fuel. I still reckon move heroes on vehicles are really due to above-average maintenance crews so you spend less time fixing it and more moving.
But that would mean that your brand new tanks will consistently and reliably break down at a calculable time.
Bonesoul wrote:... and how many T-38 and KV tanks... ... the T-38
Cheers
Bone
It's called the T-34, not t-38
sn0wball wrote:
captainjack wrote:The simplest way of modelling reliability is to go into the equipment file and reduce the fuel of vehicles known to be unreliable. Your tank is just as immobile with the drive wheel broken or the gear stick missing as when it is stuck in a pothole or out of fuel. I still reckon move heroes on vehicles are really due to above-average maintenance crews so you spend less time fixing it and more moving.
But that would mean that your brand new tanks will consistently and reliably break down at a calculable time.
This feature can be seen in WWI scenarios - no tank has more than 15 fuel.
- BNC
Ryan O'Shea - Developer - Strategic Command American Civil War
I would love to see a sequel to Peoples General, with it modern weapons and while fictions but plausible scenario of UN versus China. However for this PC would need an overhaul with new design and rules. So I guess we need first a sequel to PC. Give my Panzer Corps 2 then.
I've read some very nice things in this thread. Thanks everyone for participating
But for the time being we have to stick to whatever Panzer Corps in its current form has to offer for the development of new content.
Well I guess I am in the minority, but I would like a modern campaign series built with this engine and some additions. I don`t want phases, and aircraft missions, and real time nonsense either.
I have been waiting since playing Panzer General when it first came out, for a turn based modern game system that wasn`t Peoples General. A few modern mods were started in this forum, but they never came to life...
Am I the only gamer who dreams of swooping down on Abrams tanks with some SU25`s and a Hind or two? Is it because WWIII never happened that there are no decent cold war games? Historical battles are great, but with this system it`s just an approximation anyway.
Are far as the graphics go, look no further than what the fellows at DMP have done to see how great this game could look with a graphics overhaul. I realize that the bills have to get paid, so the stock graphics, and compelling scenarios,(lots of them) are what have sold this game, but they can always be improved by modders. I don`t really want to pay for the same game with better graphics.
***Oops, look like I`m not alone. I should have read all the post before doing my cold war crying...
Last edited by bobk on Fri May 16, 2014 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bobk wrote:Well I guess I am in the minority, but I would like a modern campaign series built with this engine and some additions. I don`t want phases, and aircraft missions, and real time nonsense either.
I have been waiting since playing Panzer General when it first came out, for a turn based modern game system that wasn`t Peoples General. A few modern mods were started in this forum, but they never came to life...
Am I the only gamer who dreams of swooping down on Abrams tanks with some SU25`s and a Hind or two? Is it because WWIII never happened that there are no decent cold war games? Historical battles are great, but with this system it`s just an approximation anyway.
Are far as the graphics go, look no further than what the fellows at DMP have done to see how great this game could look with a graphics overhaul. I realize that the bills have to get paid, so the stock graphics, and compelling scenarios,(lots of them) are what have sold this game, but they can always be improved by modders. I don`t really want to pay for the same game with better graphics.
I think that is a good ide. I'd like to see battles where infantry is a real danger to armor, tanks with ranged fire, SAMs and such.
Agreed. I like the WW2 stuff, but so many cool weapons systems have come out since 1945, and have pretty much been ignored by turn based gaming. I mean how many times do you really want to re-fight the same battles?
There are scores of modern battle boardgames, but even the modders have ignored post WW2 battlefields.
I have two suggestion, all related to continued and timely content.
1) I imagine the PanzerCorp GC's helped pay for the version upgrades and sequels AK, AC and undoubtedly SC. Further GC's (in a timely manner as to not lose the audience) should continue to bring in revenue if even not at the levels experienced in the previous releases and GCs. If development is delayed, you lose the cycle of income and investment. I agree that Slitherine's relaunching of PzC onto the Apple platforms was a smart business move as it opened up old content to a new platform of gamers, but hasn't offered anything new to the already established market since AC (and a version upgrade I believe) who are eager for more.
So please, more official content, ideally in the form of GCs. My secret joy would be Allied GCs for 39 and 40 where you represent Polish, Norwegian, Benelux and French defender. GC 39 would be the Polish campaign where you can take a tiny core into GC 1940 where you represent a Norwegian defender, and then I would love a chance to be in charge of the clearly powerful French army for the French defensive campaign. I thought the latter PC GCs which were mainly defensive gave a lot of opportunities for attack as well, something the French army had lots of as well. An escape from the continent allows you to bring a small core of units to England where you finally have access to Commonwealth types, and Allied Corp GC 40 would obviously culminate in defending against Operation Sealion in Sept 40 and have a fantastic what-if battle there. You'd hopefully be able to bring a small core into the Allied Corps game, which I think did an amazing job in the desert campaigns. Then the other Allied GCs would ideally be for the entire Sicily\Italian and the Northwest Europe campaigns.
I also believe there should be more variety for your core units than just UK or US, and in addition variety in SE units other than fighters. I personally would prefer the minor nations be the SEs, like Polish Armour, Canadian Paratroopers, Free French Mtn Troops (or French Foreign Legion), Indian Heavy Weapons, etc, each with their own special bonuses. You'd get that historical variety on the ground and put the "Allied' in Allied Corps.
2) With that said, I completely agree, yes there is labour investment to be considered. The dev team is small and I respect the need to keep margins, and all things do need to be scheduled with needs and priorities balance. And I am absolutely sure the most recent releases did not bring in that first rush of revenue previously enjoyed so perhaps PzC isn't that high on the radar for continued development. But frankly, fall 2014 is pretty far away for new content, especially with the near-constant pace of releases prior to now, and will just impact cycle of new content feeding revenue for new development.
But the idea I have is based off of a story I'll tell from another gaming website:
When I played AoE2: Age of Kings back in the day, there was a huge development community a certain website, and in a very nice touch, the AOK developers reviewed the best of the community's scenarios and campaigns, polished them up and added them to the expansion pack. They sent out a mass email to all those who uploaded content to the website (myself included) letting us know that the developers, if they liked our stuff for inclusion, they would approach the modder for permission to take legal ownership for the content. I believe those selected got a free copy of the game and some swag. So it wasn't just for the benefits, but also the bragging rights.
I think a similar solution for both faster development time (and subsequent income strean) is to be found in the modding community, not just in terms of content but time\labour investment. Either review and polish modded content for official inclusion into the next GC, (or even that WWI mod everyone talks about) or scout the most talented among the modders and offer a stipend contract. Most modders already mod for the love of the game, the money\swag\braging rights is just icing on the cake. And of course if they take the job that means they are contract employees which guarantees Slitherine certain employer right including intellectual property rights.
I am sorry for the novel but hopefully you enjoy this and stimulates discussion about further development for both PzC and Slitherine. Again I do not get into modding or file modifications myself, but I always eagerly await new official content.
Thanks for sharing your impressions, it was a very interesting read.
I think a similar solution for both faster development time (and subsequent income strean) is to be found in the modding community, not just in terms of content but time\labour investment. Either review and polish modded content for official inclusion into the next GC, (or even that WWI mod everyone talks about) or scout the most talented among the modders and offer a stipend contract. Most modders already mod for the love of the game, the money\swag\braging rights is just icing on the cake. And of course if they take the job that means they are contract employees which guarantees Slitherine certain employer right including intellectual property rights.
I hear you. I have taken my first steps into the development of official content after three years of modding for the community.
Oh then congratulations! And I am glad to hear that the powers that be are already looking into these steps, as a fan base is seriously a terrible thing to waste. I look forward to more official content released by nikivdd.
Scholomancer wrote:Oh then congratulations! And I am glad to hear that the powers that be are already looking into these steps, as a fan base is seriously a terrible thing to waste. I look forward to more official content released by nikivdd.
Thanks I'm looking forward to the official announcement .
I'd love to see the Winter war and continuation war. Nothing like the underdog kicking some ass! Although it might be difficult to simulate the tactics used by the Fins in those campaigns...
JimmyC wrote:I'd love to see the Winter war and continuation war. Nothing like the underdog kicking some ass! Although it might be difficult to simulate the tactics used by the Fins in those campaigns...
Motti tactic is not so difficult to translate into a scenario, i've already done that.
I played a bit of LoV recently and would like to smack you for the cruel difficulty in the first finnish map.
Even disregarding difficulty, I thought modeling their actual tactics didn't work all that well because all you basically did was add heroes which made the units move farther and hit harder, no?
Anyway, it's great to hear that some of the prolific modders are getting a chance to earn a few monies (I guess you won't get rich, but anything is better than nothing, right?) after all they have contributed - first bebro and now you.
Well deserved indeed.
_____
rezaf
rezaf wrote:I played a bit of LoV recently and would like to smack you for the cruel difficulty in the first finnish map.
Even disregarding difficulty, I thought modeling their actual tactics didn't work all that well because all you basically did was add heroes which made the units move farther and hit harder, no?rezaf
That was an evil scenario, Suomussalmi . I think that is the hardest scenario of the whole lot.
There were no Finnish units in the e-file, so i improvised somewhat by adding a hero. With the upcoming Soviet Corps, that problem should be solved.
The expanded database with Finnish and Soviet units could fill a developer gap
rezaf wrote:Anyway, it's great to hear that some of the prolific modders are getting a chance to earn a few monies (I guess you won't get rich, but anything is better than nothing, right?) after all they have contributed - first bebro and now you.
Well deserved indeed.
_____
rezaf
Actually i wrote Rudankort and Iain with a proposition. I think foremost the love for the game is the drive to create new content but i won't deny that it's very nice to earn a bit on my favorite hobby.
I am really happy for Bebro, he created impressive stuff for the modding community. If only one deserved to go pro, than it is surely him.
Thanks Rezaf for the kind words
.
. I think that is the hardest scenario of the whole lot.