MF shooting from a gully.

[HarryKonst]

FoG 2.0 Suppose a BG of MF bowmen are in a gully. They can see out as if outside but they can't be seen. So they can shoot against other BGs (further away 1Mu), without getting shot by them, since they can't be seen. Is that correct? And the same also happens if the BG is L.Foot in a gully? (see page 140, gully is not mentioned, so its an exeption to the general idea of getting shot by someone you shoot I guess. )
Thanks-Harry

[Robert241167]

Not got my rules on me but I seem to remember once they shoot they become visible so can be shot back at.

Rob

[HarryKonst]

That's in page 140 and it is referring to L.Foot in other terrain, not gullies.That's why I post the question.

[hazelbark]

It still applies. FOG is no tricks. You shoot you are seen and therefore can be shot.

[HarryKonst]

I play this rule as you say for years, but recently I had a disagreement with a couple of friends at the club, and the truth is I couldn't find something in the rules to prove it. Any ideas?

[petedalby]

Sadly I think the rules as written do not cover MF in this situation. I agree with Dan - there are no one-sided situations within FoG - but that doesn't help to persuade your friends.

Why not send a PM to Richard Bodley Scott, Simon Hall or Terry Shaw, the original authors - they are all still active in different parts of this forum.

[HarryKonst]

Thanks Pete.

[batesmotel]

In V1 (or maybe in the FAQ) it said the a BG shooting from a gully was visible to the troops being shot at. I haven't been able to find this inV2 unfortunately.

Chris

[petedalby]

I still have V1, the errata and the FAQs and I can't find it.

[philqw78]

I'm sure there was a very badly worded paragraph about this in V1 saying that troops shot at from a gully could shoot back with Jav, Bow, (etc).

Which (if you read it in a devious way) meant your Varangian guard could return fire into the gulley after choosing the best weapon to return fire with.

[HarryKonst]

I found the relevant rule in FoG V1. It's in page 132 under the title VISIBILITY EFFECTS , and says ;"In some cases light foot can see out but not be seen. If they shoot, however, they become visible to the battle group shot at, who can then shoot back." This is a perfect general rule (still affecting L.Foot only), and if in V2 the authors could only have replaced the words "light foot" with the word "Troops" our problem would be solved.
But in V2 the text in page 140 is more explanatory about the L.Foot (just them, not troops in general), and specifies on what type of terrain they shoot and get shot back becoming visible (leaving gully outside this rule). So, those who claim that gullies are a totally different situation have a strong argument.

[papsterdino]

I have put this question. On you are seen. When you shoot and even if you have not done anything. At all still qualify for unfriendly. Flank

[kevinj]

We've always played this logically, if you shoot you can be seen and shot back at, I'd not noticed that the reference was to LF only and that gullies are excluded from the terrain types mentioned. Fog R extends the principle to other troop types that don't exist in Fog AM, but that doesn't mention gullies either. It looks like an errata entry is needed for both sets for completeness.

[hazelbark]

Which (if you read it in a devious way) meant your Varangian guard could return fire into the gulley after choosing the best weapon to return fire with.

I have a very large cartoon sledge hammer for you next time I see you.

[zeitoun]

but on P88 of the V2, "line of sight and visbility" : a base can shoot at a target ...... * terrain that would block line of sight..
Gully troops in a gully are only visible from outside within 1 MU... It's like troops behind a crest line only visible at 1 mu. they can shoot but cannot be target of charge or shoot at...

THe effect of visibility P140 are only apply to LF because this type of terrain doesn't block the line of sight.. Considered that the light foot are lying in the enclosed field and when they shoot at target , they are standing up and become visible...