Casualties or not casualties, that is the question

[Bonesoul]

Ok so the thread title is a bit obscure sorry.

What I want to discuss is experience, how it works and therefore is optimal play optimal play. I don't think many would disagree that experienced units are your friend, heroes are nice but random, experience will always deliver. So arguably the key to optimal play, especially in 1939-41 is making sure you have the right mix of units, as experienced as possible. Too many units and other than to replace ones you totally loose (especially on the harder difficulties) you wont get your units to the exp cap for the year, too few and your adding green units when you really want them to have some experience in 1942 onwards. So how many units to blood early especially when you don't know what your going to get as free hero's as you progress is clearly one issue but there is another.

How do you maximise that all important experience and what is working to help or hinder the experience gain. For sure (and hence the thread title) the potential for casualties is in there somewhere, for certain I tested it, regardless of your casualties you seem to get more experience per kill where the attack is against less suppressed unit, in fact more than that, in a combat where the predicted result is 4-1 you get more experience if the result is 4-1 than if you get a 4-0.

So in a situation where you feel comfortable with your prestige pool and your not pushing the campaign experience cap, should you be choosing to risk casualties or even inviting them (mostly when you know you have the victory, so it doesn't come back and bite you) to maximise that oh so important experience? If prestige is your limiting factor the logic would be to always suppress with artillery to kill without casualties, but if experience is where you are struggling and you feel comfortable on prestige is artillery suppression sub-optimal, with you better off risking or even taking casualties?

As a final question, I'm not sure if or to what extent fielding units below the latest possible upgrade helps with the unit gaining experience, does a lowly PzrII or early PzrIV get more exp per kill/casualty from a combat with a T-38 than the latest PzrIVG would? If so is it by enough to compensate for the lower damage it is likely to cause?

Your views please
Bone

[Razz1]

Every unit in the same class gains experience at the same rate. So a PzII gains at the same rate as a PZIV.

However, there is a caveat, A PZIV can kill much more than as PZ II. This means you would be hard pressed to find units to kill when with a PZ III when a PZ IV is available.

[Bonesoul]

Razz

Thanks for the info. one question, is the PzrII Flamm an exception and getting exp as if its an infantry unit? It seems like a PzrIVF/2 gets maybe one exp killing 7 infantry while the flam gets loads.

[captainjack]

This link from Rudankort a while back is helpful.
viewtopic.php?t=26487

[Bonesoul]

Hmm so Rudankort's statement is this "Yes, you gain experience for each kill, and the more formidable opponent you face, the more xp you will get for killing him. So your units will gain experience faster if they face enemies with better equipment or higher experience." and Razz is saying a PzrII and PzrIV are in the same class so get experience at the same rate.

Does this mean enemies with better equipment or higher experience is as an absolute, more for a T-38 than a BT-5, rather than a relative the T-38 is far better equipment in comparison to a PzrII than to a PzrIV.

[ThorHa]

You'll find another piece of answer here:

viewtopic.php?f=121&t=47918&p=451332&hi ... ns#p451332

Better seems to mean higher ground defense. I can't state anything regarding exp as I never bothered to look in deatail. I hoarded and trained enough units by rotation to never buy anything past early 42, the only units ever below 2 stars at or after this point being captured units or special reinforcements.

What I can say for sure is that arty exp gain speed is amazing, just had a captured arty acquired turn 6 at 1,3 stars turn 14.

Regards,
Thorsten Haupts

[Tarrak]

What I can say for sure is that arty exp gain speed is amazing, just had a captured arty acquired turn 6 at 1,3 stars turn 14.

Two stars of experience gained in 8 turns? While i agree artillery is getting experience really fast, partially due to the multiple attacks per turn it gets from defensive fire this sounds really like a lot. You must have set the experience gain to quite high bonus in the settings or that artillery in question must have managed to be involved in a damn lot of defensive fire.

[captainjack]

Thorsten,
I have had a few fighters and artillery get 2* in one scenario in 1939 and 1940 but getting to 3* so quickly is impressive.

Artillery would be good candidates for rapid experience gain. The 10.5 cm gun has 8 ammo capacity and 100% Rof and Stug 3 has 8 ammo and 110% RoF, both with reasonable HA and SA for 1939 and 1940. They both have the ability to rack up a lot of hits very quickly, especially if providing defensive fire. You probably should get them some new gun barrels as the originals are probably worn out by now.

[ThorHa]

I caused a misperception: I meant 1.3 stars (135 experience) in 8 turns (acquired turn 6, first action turn 7, no defensive fire, just 6 times fired as arty and 1 turn fired as AT finishing a Churchill - it was a SU 122).

Still a lot but far from 2 or especially 3 stars.

But if I compare that to the special reinforcement fighter I received 2 scenarios ago with 1.x stars and in action for every scenario after - this one did not even reach the 2 stars now. Got admittedly less fighting as I use my fighters exclusively for defense if no enemy planes are in sight, so rarely for ground attacks.

Regards,
Thorsten