Multiple BG battle resolution

[bigdamnhero]

Scenario.

One unit of pike - four deep and three wide have been attacked by two BG's of legionaries. The pike somehow withstand the impact phase and melee ensues.

Two bases of the pike are contacted by one legion, and one base of pike is contacted by a seperate unit.


Leg1 Leg1Leg1Leg2Leg2Leg2
Pike Pike Pike Pike Pike

The melee results are:

Leg1 hit once. Leg2 hit twice.
Pike hit twicePike hit twice.

According the book :

1. 'A battle group has lost a close combat if the total number of hits recieved from ALL of its ooponents are greater than the total inflicted on ALL of its opponents.' Pg 98

Ok - so if the pike get more hits on it than it inflicts it looses and carries out Cohesion tests.

However in the above instance how is this resoplved for the two legions?

Leg1 loses by one. Leg two draws. Only Leg 1 takes a cohesion test?

[WhiteKnight]

The pike have lost and take one cohesion test and do their death roll, too. Legion 1 has won, so no CT and with only one hit, no DR either. Legion 2 has drawn so no CT and no DR as it only had two hits.

I believe I'm right in saying that even if the pike had lost BOTH fights, they,d still only take ONE CT.

Martin

[nikgaukroger]

I believe I'm right in saying that even if the pike had lost BOTH fights, they,d still only take ONE CT.

Correct

[sagji]

Scenario.

One unit of pike - four deep and three wide have been attacked by two BG's of legionaries. The pike somehow withstand the impact phase and melee ensues.

Two bases of the pike are contacted by one legion, and one base of pike is contacted by a seperate unit.


Leg1 Leg1Leg1Leg2Leg2Leg2
Pike Pike Pike Pike Pike

The melee results are:

Leg1 hit once. Leg2 hit twice.
Pike hit twicePike hit twice.

According the book :

1. 'A battle group has lost a close combat if the total number of hits recieved from ALL of its ooponents are greater than the total inflicted on ALL of its opponents.' Pg 98

Ok - so if the pike get more hits on it than it inflicts it looses and carries out Cohesion tests.

However in the above instance how is this resoplved for the two legions?

Leg1 loses by one. Leg two draws. Only Leg 1 takes a cohesion test?

Assuming Leg1 hit once means Leg1 inflicted 1 hit.
Pike took 3 inflicted 4 - hasn't lost so no CT and deathroll at +2 [needs 2+ to not loose a base]
Leg1 took 2 infilcted 1 - has lost by 1 so CT and deathroll [needs 3+ to not loose a base]
Leg2 took 2 infilcted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT and can't fail the deathroll.

Assuming it means Leg1 received 1 hit.
Pike took 4 infilcted 3 - has lost by 1 so CT and deathroll [needs 5+ to not loose a base]
Leg1 took 1 infilcted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT and can't fail the deathroll.
Leg2 took 2 infilcted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT and can't fail the deathroll.

You always work on how many hits a BG infilcts versus how many it receives - only hits by or on the BG count.

[sagji]

I believe I'm right in saying that even if the pike had lost BOTH fights, they,d still only take ONE CT.
Martin

Correct - from the pike's perspective it is one battle, which it either looses or it doesn't.

[bigdamnhero]

Got it!

In summary - oh God here i go....

The pike has taken three hits overall and dished out 4, so they dont lose. However the legions have differing results to roll against. Leg1 have lost and must take a CT etc. Leg2 have drawn - so no CT.

Thanks guys - just be sure to have 12 bases of pike against legions!

[JerryA92656]

I'm very confused by this thread.

One message is implying that the pike received 4 hits and another is implying that it gave out 4 hits. Which is it?

From reading the rules my understanding is that the single pike BG totals all the hits that it recieved and "both" legion BG's total the hits they recieved and combine them. Once both sides have their total a comparison is done. So, if the pike "received" 4 hits vs. the 3 that the legion took then the legion won. If the pike received 3 hits and the legion received 4 then the pike won.

Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

[Maerk]

Jerry -

The confusion arises from bigdamnhero's first post where it is unclear who dealt out and who received the hits. Whatever he meant, the following post explains it both possible ways:

Assuming Leg1 hit once means Leg1 inflicted 1 hit.
Pike took 3 inflicted 4 - hasn't lost so no CT and deathroll at +2 [needs 2+ to not loose a base]
Leg1 took 2 infilcted 1 - has lost by 1 so CT and deathroll [needs 3+ to not loose a base]
Leg2 took 2 infilcted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT and can't fail the deathroll.

Assuming it means Leg1 received 1 hit.
Pike took 4 infilcted 3 - has lost by 1 so CT and deathroll [needs 5+ to not loose a base]
Leg1 took 1 infilcted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT and can't fail the deathroll.
Leg2 took 2 infilcted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT and can't fail the deathroll.

You always work on how many hits a BG infilcts versus how many it receives - only hits by or on the BG count.

[sagji]

I'm very confused by this thread.

One message is implying that the pike received 4 hits and another is implying that it gave out 4 hits. Which is it?

From reading the rules my understanding is that the single pike BG totals all the hits that it recieved and "both" legion BG's total the hits they recieved and combine them. Once both sides have their total a comparison is done. So, if the pike "received" 4 hits vs. the 3 that the legion took then the legion won. If the pike received 3 hits and the legion received 4 then the pike won.

Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

Yes - each BG independantly works out if it lost or not.
So to work out if the pike lost you look at howmand hits it infilcted and howmant the 2 legions inflicted.
For each of the legions you have to look at howmany hits that legion inflicted and howmany hits the pike inflicted against that legion.

[hammy]

The key to combat outcomes is not who won but who lost.

If a BG takes more hits (from direct opponents or overlaps) than it inflicts then it loses and must take a cohesion test.

If you don't lose then all you need to worry about is a death roll (which you get a +2 for) and the chance of losing a general fighting in the front rank (which needs 2 or more hits and then your opponent to roll a 12).

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

One of the things about thinking 'has my BG lost?' (rather than won) is that it is probably not a thought process that people will have come across in other rules so it takes a bit longer to become an automatic reaction. I imagine when it does it flows pretty smoothly - those who have played a lot of games will doubtless chip in here.

Regards

[hammy]

Greetings

One of the things about thinking 'has my BG lost?' (rather than won) is that it is probably not a thought process that people will have come across in other rules so it takes a bit longer to become an automatic reaction. I imagine when it does it flows pretty smoothly - those who have played a lot of games will doubtless chip in here.

Regards

Yes, once both players have a decent number of games under their belts the game can really crack along. I think that towards the end of one of our games in Leeds we were completing a full turn with all the moves and a 12 or so base frontage mixed combat in under 5 minutes and that wasn't pushing it as fast as we could.

[bigdamnhero]

Sorry guys my fault there!

I meant to say that the two legions inflicted less hits on the pike. The pike inflicted a total of 4 hits on the two legions (2 on each), Whilst the legions hit the pike a total of 3 times.

It was more a question of how the CT' are resolved. The pike win overall. I see it that one legion as a BG loses two hits to the one they give out, so they take a CT. The other legion has recieved 2 hits and given 2 hits and thus have no ct to take.

I hope thats right!

[terrys]

I think a lot of confusion was caused by your terminology.

i.e.
'pikes hit twice' could mean that the pikes received 2 hits, or that the pikes gave 2 hits.

[JerryA92656]

Ok - I am starting to get it. Now for further clarification let's reconsider this example:

Pike took 4 inflicted 3 - has lost by 1 so CT
Leg1 took 1 inflicted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT
Leg2 took 2 inflicted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT

I am assuming that this situation possible and this is the correct outcome:

Pike took 3 inflicted 2 - has lost by 1 so CT
Leg1 took 2 inflicted 1 - has lost by 1 so CT
Leg2 took 0 inflicted 2 - hasn't lost so no CT

Am I correct? Or am I still not getting it?

[WhiteKnight]

I think you have 100% there Jerry .... Happy FOGging!

Martin