Terrain values for bridge engineers ...

[ThorHa]

Noting the astonishing resilience of Soviet or German bridge engineers on river hexes and as an ipad user unable to look after anything: Is the terrain value of a river hex the same for bridge engineers as for any other unit, where it halves combat power?

Regards,
Thorsten

[Tarrak]

There is nothing indicating the better performance of the Brückenpioniere over standard Wehrmacht Infantry when attacking a river hex or defending one. The detailed combat log looks exactly same except of course the different values both units have. The better performance of the Brückenpioniere must be hidden somewhere else.

[ThorHa]

I don´t know IF it is hidden somewhere. Could be streaks of unbelievable luck - but the Russian bridge engineers in Kiev 43 survived several tank attacks after artillery preparation and my (experienced) bridge engineer in Prokhorovka at strength 10 survived 2 T34/41 attacks at overstrength 12 each and unsuppressed at remaining strength 6. Highly unusual for units on a river hex.

Regards,
Thorsten

[ThorHa]

Forgot: Thanks for the answer, so the first obvious assumption (rivers counting different for bridge engineers) is most likely wrong.

[Tarrak]

Well the bridge engineers units all have the "beng" trait. This could beside giving them the ability to function as a bridge of course give them some combat bonuses on rivers but in case of the "fortkiller" trait at least the bonus is displayed in the advanced combat log if my memory serves well. So unless the displaying of trait related bonuses behave different from trait to trait or of course in case my memory deceives me it doesn't looks like it.

[McGuba]

Just to put things right, quote from PzC manual (bold by me):

BRIDGE ENGINEERS

Bridge engineers are used to bridge rivers and allow other units to cross them easily. To use
a bridge engineer unit, just move it into a river hex, and other units will move as if there was
a bridge in that hex. Bridge engineers can bridge both minor and major rivers. Unlike other
units, bridge engineers do not suffer combat penalties when attacked on a river.

fig.1 Wehrmacht infantry can attack two British infantry units standing on river hex:




fig. 2 Battle prediction (Ctr+click) if Wehr inf attacks British inf:




predicted losses: German inf: 2, British inf: 4



fig. 3 Battle prediction if Wehr inf attacks British bridge engineer:




predicted losses: German inf: 2, British bridge eng: 2.
Reason: Wehrmacht infantry does not get +4 initiative and +4 attack bonus when it attacks a bridge engineer unit standing on a river hex.

The "hidden" performance of the Brückenpioniere and other bridge engineer units can be checked in the ...\Panzer Corps\Data\equipment.pzeqp file under the "Add Traits" column. Currently the Brückenpioniere unit has these three traits: beng close minekiller.
beng means bridge engineer,
close means in close terrain enemy units would use their close defense stat when defending against the attack of this unit (all infantry units have it),
minekiller means this unit is more effective when attacking (clearing) minefields.


My personal opinion is that it is a big problem that these traits are invisible (hidden) within the game, one has to open the afformentioned file to check the traits of any given unit (and the same goes for the infamous Rate Of Fire). Especially with the iPad version of the game, where it seems to be impossible to do it, it would be great to see these traits in-game.

For example in the old Pacific General these traits were very much visible in the unit purchase screen (sorry for the poor quality of the image):




I guess it would not be too hard to add something similar to Panzer Corps as well. There is plenty space in the unit purchase screen to add these things like this:



Edit: maybe as an added extra if the player hovers the mouse arrow over the name of a trait a short explanation of that trait could appear.

Which would be a huge improvement, IMO.



Regards,
McGuba

[ThorHa]

Thanks for clarification. As usual I missed the explanation in the manual and jnfortunately I could check nothing on ipad.

So these units DO have an unusual resilience on river hexes, I found luck possible but hard to believe.

Regards,
Thorszen

[Tarrak]

McGuba is totally right here. I thought to see the +4 target on river bonus as well when attacking the bridge engineers. After double checking it i was clearly wrong. It seems i need to visit my ophthalmologist again and check my sight. No idea how i managed to fumble that one.

[Forefall]

Wow, nice response McGuba. Thanks for the info.

[ThorHa]

As we are at the topic anyway: I thought the battle is always on the hex of the defender with its ups and downs. River hexes are an exception, if a unit is attacked there it fights with the river hex penalties but the attacker fights at full strength?

Regards,
Thorsten

[McGuba]

ThorHa wrote:
Thanks for clarification. As usual I missed the explanation in the manual and jnfortunately I could check nothing on ipad.

No problem. No one can be expected to read and memorize the manual of any game he has just started to play. On the contrary, I think most players (and I am not an exception!) do not always bother reading the manual, saying "I can do it!" But it is all right as well, basically that's why developers started to add in-game tutorials to their new games and Panzer Corps did a great job in this. Still, as they say, PzC is a typical example of "easy to learn, hard to master", so even veteran players can find some new feature in it now and then.

So these units DO have an unusual resilience on river hexes, I found luck possible but hard to believe.

Sure, sometimes it is hard to tell the difference as especially with the combat randomness set to normal, engagemets often tend to have strange result.

As we are at the topic anyway: I thought the battle is always on the hex of the defender with its ups and downs. River hexes are an exception, if a unit is attacked there it fights with the river hex penalties but the attacker fights at full strength?

I would rather say if a unit standing on a river hex is attacked by another one then the attacker gets certain bonuses to its attack stats (unless the defender is a bridge engineer). But, I think giving bonuses to the attacker or penalties to the defender are basically the same thing.

[Longasc]

These special traits should be displayed somewhere.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

"easy to learn, hard to master

True - still can't beat half of the scenarios on LIEUTENANT. It's more fun to mod the game anyway.

- BNC

[captainjack]

still can't beat half of the scenarios on LIEUTENANT. It's more fun to mod the game anyway.- BNC

You might find it easier if you bought some transports!