Anyone for a stake?

[WhiteKnight]

A BG of French mtd Knights charges a BG of English longbowmen behind their stakes in the impact phase.

a) Do the knights count as in open terrain if the archers are protected by their stakes alone? (....eg no hedges, boggy ground, favourable slope etc etc)

b) If so, am I right that they fight as a POA +1? ( + for lance, + for v MF, cancel one + for the archer's stakes)

c) If they do not count open terrain, then I imagine they are at POA -1 as the only POA applying is that for the archer's stakes? Moreover will they count as disordered as anything but open terrain affects knights adversely?

Am I right in thinking the rules don't differentiate between different kinds of field defences? PD and FF cost the same in points ( but I did find it says stakes etc only count against mounted, which seems right ) and having no difference in effects keeps things simple. In that case, though, I guess those knights and similar mounted need to count as in case c) above for attacking troops beyond field defences otherwise we'll see silly things like mtd knights throwing themselves against ditches, fences and earth ramparts with the impact combat advantage!

Hope I haven't missed something in the rules, but I'm still not clear on this one!

Martin

[rbodleyscott]

A BG of French mtd Knights charges a BG of English longbowmen behind their stakes in the impact phase.

a) Do the knights count as in open terrain if the archers are protected by their stakes alone? (....eg no hedges, boggy ground, favourable slope etc etc)

No. See definition of open terrain in glossary P.135. The stakes count as fortifcations vs Knights, so it doesn't count as open terrain.

b) If so, am I right that they fight as a POA +1? ( + for lance, + for v MF, cancel one + for the archer's stakes)

No they fight at POA -1.

No + for lance, no + for v MF, - for vs foot defending fortifications.

c) If they do not count open terrain, then I imagine they are at POA -1 as the only POA applying is that for the archer's stakes? Moreover will they count as disordered as anything but open terrain affects knights adversely?

No, they are not disordered, because no part of their base is in disordering terrain.

[magedoc]

If longbowmen get 1stake/2bases what happens if they deploy in only 1 rank adn want to place stakes?

[nigelb]

I'm no expert, but I would place each base of stakes across the joint between a pair of bowmen (S = stakes, numbers = bow figures)
111122223333444455556666
....SSSS.....SSSS.....SSSS

that kind of thing.

I think that should protect the whole line. I'm sure I will be quickly corrected if not!

[nigelb]

That didn't come out quite right, but the first couple of stakes should give the idea.

[rbodleyscott]

If longbowmen get 1stake/2bases what happens if they deploy in only 1 rank adn want to place stakes?

They can only protect half their line. The normal formation is 2 bases deep.

[WhiteKnight]

thanks for clarification/reference re PD and FF...I had missed the glossary point entirely! I also see why in rules terms those mtd attackers are not disordered, too. With reasonable dice rolling , they may well hit the stakes in disorder anyhow and then, at impact, the rear rank of archers have another chance to contribute to the demise of the knights!

If the archers do form in one rank, I guess the ones that may place stakes is the choice of the player? In which case, in the impact and melee phases, it will be necessary to calculate the POAs for each combat...the knights facing stakes at a -1 POA and those not so doing at a ++POA?

Martin

[rbodleyscott]

If the archers do form in one rank, I guess the ones that may place stakes is the choice of the player? In which case, in the impact and melee phases, it will be necessary to calculate the POAs for each combat...the knights facing stakes at a -1 POA and those not so doing at a ++POA?

Presumably so.

As an umpire I would certainly stamp on any jiggery pokery such as Nigel (innocently) suggested.

[nigelb]

Well, at least I got that little wrinkle cleared up quickly, before anyone actually tries it!

I guess if the stakes are placed, for (hopefully legitimate) example, in front of alternate bases, it might reflect trying to channel attackers into a narrower "killing ground" - any attack in column to avoid the stakes might be OK in Impact, but would obviously suffer in Melee. Line attacks would, of course, have a mix of POA's along the line.

Anyhoo, the whole thing just reflects the fact that the BG is best deployed two deep - it concentrates all shooting on a smaller frontage, therefore more HPB on the target(s), right?

[BlankFrank]

I'm new to this and haven't played my first game yet but I'm trying to figure out how stakes are used. I have a WOTR army so stakes are an option. Do I model the stakes onto half of my bases or should the stakes be "free standing?"
when my longbowmen move are the stakes then gone? Or do they move the stakes with them? I assume that setting stakes was a little more time-consuming than re-setting the stakes everytime they moved. If stakes don't move, then strategically it seems like you line of longbowmen is fairly static.

I await all of your wisdom.

Thanks,

Frank

[BlankFrank]

I'm new to this and haven't played my first game yet but I'm trying to figure out how stakes are used. I have a WOTR army so stakes are an option. Do I model the stakes onto half of my bases or should the stakes be "free standing?"
when my longbowmen move are the stakes then gone? Or do they move the stakes with them? I assume that setting stakes was a little more time-consuming than re-setting the stakes everytime they moved. If stakes don't move, then strategically it seems like you line of longbowmen is fairly static.

I await all of your wisdom.

Thanks,

Frank

[WhiteKnight]

hi there

Model the stakes on freestanding bases which are the same size as the longbowman bases. When you CMT to set stakes and succeed (you hope...) the stakes replace the position of the LB base and the LB base is moved immediately behind it in exact front edge to rear edge contact. However, you count shooting distance from the front of the stakes base! Any enemy in contact with the stakes count as fighting the LB though only horse/camel mounted troops get the impact/melee disadvantages.

If you LB want to move , they can CMT to pick up their stakes. If they fail then move or move without testing, the stakes are removed from play.

Hope this helps!

Martin

[nikgaukroger]

Model the stakes as free standing as they need to be placed (with a CMT) rather than always being there.

Stakes can be taken up again (needs a CMT) and can be done if there are no enemy within 6MU IIRC - or you can just abandon them.