Firing Close Skirmishers: # of Dice???

[Blathergut]

(Copied from the errata thread.)



Re: FOGN errata

Unread postby Bar853 » 17 Mar 2014 04:41
I am not sure if this has been picked up previously but in the QRS table on "Firing - How many dice" for close range, skirmish is not mentioned. In the rule book on page 49 it lists Squares and Skirmishers as having 3 fire dice for small units and 4 fire dice for large units. Has there been an amendment to this in FOG(N) errata and corrections? Or has this just dropped off the QRS.


Has this been noticed before???

[deadtorius]

I believe somewhere in the past it was decided skirmishers shoot as light infantry at med and close but at close they shoot with - POA mod. That is how I have always treated them.
Unfortunately I don't recall which posting it was or when it was brought up.

[Bar853]

That sounds a bit generous for Skirmishers. Reading down through the current QRS table on firing that would mean that a small unit in skirmish at close range fires with 4 dice, and would require a 5 to hit due to a - poa " firing unit is in skirmish formation" but a formed infantry unit in tactical at close range gets 4 dice and would also hit on a 5 due to a - poa "target is infantry in skirmish formation" . Sounds like Skirmishers get two bites of the same cheery.

[deadtorius]

Well on the less generous side skirmishers can't shoot with attachments. Keep in mind that when shooting at cav at close they will hit on a 6, and likely get killed by the cav charge.
Getting the same dice at close range with same hit number as a line unit is not really that great. The line unit can charge them and they have to scurry off.

Shooting aside it's hard to do much other than meat shield with them. In combat they fight with same dice as a square, and I think a -POA.
They were meant to shoot, and screen, not much else.

[Saxonian]

I don't quite understand what the confusion is here.

The rule book clearly states on p.49 that at close range, square or skirmishers get 3 dice for a small and 4 dice for a large unit.
On p.53 on the table for POA's, skirmishers firing at close range is a '-' modifier.
All very clear and straightforward.

As far as I am aware, there has been no errata published on this, though I may have missed it. And we always play that when in doubt, the rule book will always trump a QRS unless it is an official errata change.

. Keep in mind that when shooting at cav at close they will hit on a 6

Can't see how this is so .
There is no penalty for shooting at cav at close range, just the dice loss at medium range.
Shooting at cav never has a '-' POA (except when defensive fire from outside the front of the firers).


Just a suggestion.....

Whenever one of these threads comes to a conclusion, and we get a final ruling from the "powers that be", why not list them all in a separate category on the index page of the FoG:N forum, just under rules questions.
That way it will be so much easier to know what is an official change/interpretation/etc, as separate from what is a general consensus.
Not for every thread obviously, just the gnarly ones.
It will also help eliminate the "I know its there, I just can't remember where I saw it....." situation.

Just my two cents...

[Bar853]

Thank you all who replied. I found the thread with Terry's answer to how many fire dice do Skirmishers get at close range. Thread is titled "Re Questions after the game" It would be easier if these types of changes were listed in the errata.

[Blathergut]

Relevant Post:



Re: questions after a game

Postby terrys » 09 Sep 2012 19:24

But how many dice : as for extend line or as SK ?



I've removed "skirmishers" as part of the same line as Squares on the new reference sheet.
They now fire as either "Infantry in Tactical" or "Each 1/2 of extended line" when at close range.

NB. They still get a -POA for firing in skirmish formation at close range.

[Blathergut]

As far as I am aware, there has been no errata published on this, though I may have missed it. And we always play that when in doubt, the rule book will always trump a QRS unless it is an official errata change.

Actually, it is probably safer to go with the latest QRS. They usually contain corrections/clarifications/changes made by Terry, hopefully all listed in latest errata.

It would be nice to be able to get the latest QRS sheets instead of just the one posted.

[KeefM]

Wow. How about that then ?

And here I was, playing the rules as written (3 dice for skirmishers at close range). There have been no official amendments to suggest otherwise long after Terry's post in 2012 !

So, officially, which is it ??? 3 or 4 dice ??

If it was me, I'd be ruling for 3 dice seeing as the official amendments current as of Jan 2014 make no change to the rules.

[Blathergut]

I suppose the latest QRS could be seen as errata too.

[deadtorius]

As for shooting at cav, unless they are charging you the hit number at close range is 5, so with skirmishing POA it becomes 6, and a near death guarantee in the enemy turn.

[Saxonian]

Just tried to get the new QRS from the FOG:N site, but it won't open.
Says something about corrupted file or not being supported by Adobe.

Also, still not sure why you would only hit cav at close range on a 5 with formed troops.
There is no '-' POA for firing at cav, is there?

[Blathergut]

1. The "New Errata and QRS" only contains one QRS page (Simple and Complex Moves). The other three pages are missing. We've been waiting for some time for them, but no luck yet (since beginning of Feb. Though they were originally posted at the start of January. Hopefully the error will be corrected and all four pages posted at some point. I know there was a problem with the server, but whether it has been fixed or not, I do not know.)

You need to unzip the file and then it should open with adobe.

2. Close Range Shooting:

>Infantry in any formation (with conditions re: assaulting units) are hit on 4+.
>Cavalry (unless charging firers from front) are hit on 5+.

So skirmishers, firing at cavalry at close range will hit on 5s but take a -1 for firing in skirmish formation at close range, so hit the cavalry on 6s.

[Bar853]

I thought I had found the answer to my question how many fire dice does a unit in skirmish get at close range, I found a thread where Terry said "I've removed "skirmishers" as part of the same line as Squares on the new reference sheet.
They now fire as either "Infantry in Tactical" or "Each 1/2 of extended line" when at close range."

Which would make it 4 fire dice for a small unit. Thread dated 9 Sept 2012.

Digging around come across a thread dated 8 May 2013 "use of artillery attachments with light infantry". In it Terry gives an example of Skirmishers at close range "At close range Skirmishers would get 3+2 dice at a - POA ..... So particularly dangerous"

So do units in small units in skirmish get 3 dice or 4! and it looks like they "can" fire an artillery attachment for an extra 2 fire dice as well.

I

[Blathergut]

The latest (available) QRS (Jan. 2013) show:

Close:

>Infantry in Square = 3 dice (Skirmishers not mentioned.)
>Artillery attachment = +2 dice (no restrictions)

Medium:

>Artillery attachment = +2 or +1 dice (Infantry Skirmishers specifically mentioned as not getting this/these dice.)

As for the conflicting statements from Terry, only he could clarify with certainty at this point in time. I would tend to go with the above.

[Saxonian]

Also, still not sure why you would only hit cav at close range on a 5 with formed troops.
There is no '-' POA for firing at cav, is there?

OK, just read the rulebook again and realise that cav fall under "all other targets" at "any range".
Sorry, my bad.....that's one I definitely missed!

[Blathergut]

We were doing the same here for the longest time too!

[deadtorius]

gosh it is tough to be human is it not

For what it is worth in our games my Grenzers who are permanent skirmishers always shoot as a small unit in tactical, and they don't ever get an arty attachment since they can't shoot it. I rarely let them get to close range when they get the -POA, much better to stand back and let the enemy get all frustrated shooting at them instead.