Question on intiative, suppression and combat mechanics

[Ucross]

This is complicated, but how does the suppression from units killed [(50%-10*rank) suppression per unit killed] work?

Does it count only the units killed BEFORE considering the units that 'strike first' with initiative? Or does it count ALL units killed? Does the suppression it generates directly suppress? Or is it only x% of them due to initiative?

For example if I roll so that I kill 10 and suppress 0 and have +1 initiative then 20% (due to +1 initiative) should be suppressed. However the kill will give me more of a bonus. Do those kills translate directly into 5 more suppression? Or is it 5 suppression time 0.2 for the initiative?

The reason I ask is I have seen 2 screen shots on these forums and NEITHER works under a method I can figure out:




I cannot come up with a formulae that explains both of these combat outcomes. I don't understand why a blue roll on the 2nd screen shot and with 9 kills has 0 suppression listed but can suppress 10. If I assume the screen is bugged and didn't just display the suppression the only way I can come up with suppressing 10 is if they kills suppress WITHOUT influence of the initiative (i.e. the suppress directly). However, in the first example the only way to come up with that out come is if the suppression from kills does so WITH influence from the initiative (i.e. at a initiative x 20% rate).

Can anyone help clarify for me?

[ksasaki]

these are weird screenshots, they don't agree with my understanding of initiative and suppression either....perhaps they are from an earlier patch?

[Ucross]

Ok, I just did a test of the current version of panzer corp and it doesn't fit my understand either.

Why was there 10 units unsuppressed when I killed 2 and suppressed 2? With an initiative of +1 should that be 4 * 0.2 = 0.8 and then rounded to 1?

[ksasaki]

Ok I just read the "initiative explained part 2" thread, and let's try to explain your most recent screenshot:

what +1 initiative means is that 20% of your units "fire first" before any of the enemy is able to fire: if any of those hit, then you multiply again your kill / suppression result by 20%.

By 20% it means 20% of your total result: i.e. 2 killed 2 suppressed.

.2 * 2 = .4 round down to 0, so no units are killed or suppressed by that.

For very first screenshot with 5 killed 3 suppressed. You have an initiative advantage of 3, therefore 60% of your units fire before the enemy can fire.

so your die result was 5 killed 1 suppressed.
.6* 5 = 3 killed
.6 *1 = .6 round up to 1 suppressed
remember, each kill also generates (.5-stars*.1), I guess the grenadier are green (they are strength 10), so 50% suppression per kill
you had 3 killed, so 1.5 suppression additionally caused by kills.
this is rounded up to 2 (not sure if rounding is done BEFORE or AFTER the 60% is applied, I'm going to assume the rounding is done BEFORE).
so .6 * 2 = 1.2 round down to 1 additional suppression

So total of 3 kills 2 suppressions which is why his 5 can fire. Then the total values of course are 5 and 3 (5 killed, 1 suppressed + 2 suppressed from the kills)

So I guess that means the suppressions from kills are applied on ONLY the + initiative initial fire, otherwise the formula doesn't work out...

Now to the middle example of 9 killed:

wehrmacht has +2 initiative, so 40% fire first.
he killed 9 suppressed 1 on the roll, so

9 * .4 = 3.6 round up to 4
1*.4 = .4 round down to 0
Then also the additional 2 suppression from kills

so it should be 4 killed, 2 suppressed which should mean 7 of his units fire back, but only 3 fired back... so the formula works for the two, but not for that weird 9 killed one...I also don't know why any suppressions show up on the 9 killed screenshot, because even a die roll had 1 suppression....

I don't know, I am just guessing, can someone else with more knowledge maybe shed some light on this?

[Forefall]

Ksasaki, the last screenshot example should be 0.2 * 4 (2 kill, 2 suppress), which is 0.8, as stated by Ucross. Maybe suppression is always rounded down?

The original screenshots seem to be from an earlier version so perhaps for clarity they shouldn't be discussed.

[ksasaki]

My guess is that kills and suppression are calculated separately not as a lump sum. But I could be wrong

[Forefall]

That's a reasonable thought

[Ucross]

My guess is that kills and suppression are calculated separately not as a lump sum. But I could be wrong

It wouldn't make sense though because sometimes I kill all 10 and suppress 0 and they have 0 unsuppressed strength. So Kills must lead to suppression.