Overlap from troops providing artillery rear support

[batesmotel]

Do troops providing rear support to artillery provide an overlap against enemy that are fighting a BG in line with the artillery but not in contact with the artiillery except corner to corner?

According to page 126:

When an artillery base with rear support is in contact with the enemy in the impact or melee phase , close combat takes place netween the supporting troops and the enemy in contact with the artillery base. (The artillery crews are assumed to have withdrawn behind their friends but the artillery base is left in place and takes no part in close combat. If the enemy cease to be in contact with the artillery battle group and it has not been captured , the crew are assumed to return and the artillery then functions normally again.

If the rear support troops can provide an overlap, does this prevent the artillery from firing (or moving) while they are doing so?

Chris

[kevinj]

I would say yes. The supporting BG "is treated for all intents and purposes as if its front edge was in the position of the font edge of the artillery". (We often move up the extra files to this position as a reminder.) Therefore, they are eligible to fight as an overlap. The crew only retire behind their supporting troops if one of the artillery bases is in contact, so could shoot if the non-supporting base is providing an overlap.

[batesmotel]

To clarify my question, the potentially overlapping base is a base providing rear support, e.g. the enemy BG is in corner to corner contact with the artillery that the base is supporting and in frontal contact with another friendly BG in flank to flank contact with the gun.

Does this change your answer?

Chris

[ravenflight]

To clarify my question, the potentially overlapping base is a base providing rear support, e.g. the enemy BG is in corner to corner contact with the artillery that the base is supporting and in frontal contact with another friendly BG in flank to flank contact with the gun.

Does this change your answer?

Chris

Chris, I'm not sure I understand fully your question, but this is what we do:




The are artillery, the Muskets and the pike.

So, we slide the rear supporting bases forward because that is where they are in reality.

[kevinj]

Yes, that's a different situation to the one I envisaged before. In this case the artillery base in corner contact would be an eligible overlap so the supporting BG fights instead. The artillery crew from this base would be behind their supports, but I don't think those of an adjacent base would be, so that one could shoot but not the one whose support is fighting as an overlap.

[ravenflight]

Yes, that's a different situation to the one I envisaged before. In this case the artillery base in corner contact would be an eligible overlap so the supporting BG fights instead. The artillery crew from this base would be behind their supports, but I don't think those of an adjacent base would be, so that one could shoot but not the one whose support is fighting as an overlap.

I think I see what you're saying... is this right?

= spacer, ignore it.
= artillery Bases
= musket
= pike
=enemy bases





So, you're saying that the that is acting as overlap doesn't fight?

I'd think there is no real ruling on it. It's basically not covered.

Given that, I'd say you'd have to be realistic about the situation. Half a battery isn't going to hang about firing while the other half is in close combat. They're getting the hell out of dodge. In that sense they 'withdraw behind the support'.

SO, the pike (in my example above) do act as overlap and the artillery can't fire.

[kevinj]

The scenario I was describing (which I think is what Chris meant) is slightly different. Using your symbols, except that is a friendly BG fighting :





The leftmost is in contact as an overlap, so its supports fight and its gunners are assumed to be retired behind them.

The right hand is not in contact, therefore does not fight, its gunners do not retire and it can shoot.

In your example, both guns are are in contact (one as an overlap) so the supports from both fight and the guns cannot shoot.

[ravenflight]

The scenario I was describing is slightly different. Using your symbols, except that is a friendly BG fighting :





The leftmost is in contact as an overlap, so its supports fight and its gunners are assumed to be retired behind them.

The right hand is not in contact, therefore does not fight, its gunners do not retire and it can shoot.

Yes,

I guess in this instance they fire with no -poa due to combat, and don't act as overlap.

[titanu]

I would say yes. The supporting BG "is treated for all intents and purposes as if its front edge was in the position of the font edge of the artillery". (We often move up the extra files to this position as a reminder.) Therefore, they are eligible to fight as an overlap. The crew only retire behind their supporting troops if one of the artillery bases is in contact, so could shoot if the non-supporting base is providing an overlap.

But where do they shoot from? Where the figures are at the back of the artillery base or from the front? This would be the one file of shot that are not behind the guns.

[kevinj]

From the front. The foot and guns are considered to be occupying the same space, the foot are not really behind the guns.