I have a question about testing for commander casualties. If Unit A fires n Unit B which is a unit with an officer attachment and is a six stand unit, does it make a test on 3 hits? A friend says no it takes 4+ hits. I say it takes a test on 3 hits, but the effectis a casualty test and a disruption as if 2 hits.
Please adjudicate, Thanks
Commander Casualty test?
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KendallB
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Re: Commander Casualty test?
Three hits no matter what the size of the unit. Also note that one hit in combat spends a large cavalry unit as well.
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Blathergut
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Re: Commander Casualty test?
Page 66 (1st paragraph right-hand column): Hits normally ignored by Superior or large units still count towards the 3 hits required to cause a casualty to a commander.
Re: Commander Casualty test?
Another commander casualty question......
Unit A defeats unit B in combat, causing 3+ casualties in the process, and the result is that unit B routs. The Division commander attached to unit B survives his casualty test.
Unit B makes his outcome move for being broken, and unit A pursues and manages to catch B, so Unit B is destroyed. Is there a second test to try to kill the commander attached to unit B?
We played that there is not, as no actual casualties are inflicted at the point where the unit was destroyed.
The rules don't specifically mention this, and it seems a little strange that the commander can simply "slip away" as his unit disintegrates around him.
And also, I was wondering why is an officer attachment lost when a unit breaks, when a skirmisher attachment is retained?
Cavalry and artillery attachments I understand - cav rides off, artillery gets left behind.
I would have thought that the officer would stay with the unit to try to rally it (assuming he is still alive of course!!).
Unit A defeats unit B in combat, causing 3+ casualties in the process, and the result is that unit B routs. The Division commander attached to unit B survives his casualty test.
Unit B makes his outcome move for being broken, and unit A pursues and manages to catch B, so Unit B is destroyed. Is there a second test to try to kill the commander attached to unit B?
We played that there is not, as no actual casualties are inflicted at the point where the unit was destroyed.
The rules don't specifically mention this, and it seems a little strange that the commander can simply "slip away" as his unit disintegrates around him.
And also, I was wondering why is an officer attachment lost when a unit breaks, when a skirmisher attachment is retained?
Cavalry and artillery attachments I understand - cav rides off, artillery gets left behind.
I would have thought that the officer would stay with the unit to try to rally it (assuming he is still alive of course!!).
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deadtorius
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Re: Commander Casualty test?
As soon as the unit broke the commander is removed, so no survival test as he was already lost.
As for retaining a skirmish attachment, it's the size of the attachment that makes a difference. An attachment would likely be company sized, and those men stay with the attached unit, they are not going to run off on their own. As you said, a commander and a few staff are killed, cavalry rides off, any guns are left behind, the gunner's joining the unit, and there are not a whole lot of them about.
A company of skirmishers, say around 100 men will stick around with the unit. This is why skirmisher attachments are not lost.
As for retaining a skirmish attachment, it's the size of the attachment that makes a difference. An attachment would likely be company sized, and those men stay with the attached unit, they are not going to run off on their own. As you said, a commander and a few staff are killed, cavalry rides off, any guns are left behind, the gunner's joining the unit, and there are not a whole lot of them about.
A company of skirmishers, say around 100 men will stick around with the unit. This is why skirmisher attachments are not lost.
Re: Commander Casualty test?
I assume in losing the attached commander is he meaning a Brigade Commander? Which of course is lost when the unit is lost.
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BrettPT
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Re: Commander Casualty test?
I think the idea behind this is that every unit has a Brigade/Regimental commander, but occasionally this chap is such a fine fellow that he deserves special mention as a BC.Saxonian wrote:And also, I was wondering why is an officer attachment lost when a unit breaks, when a skirmisher attachment is retained?
Cavalry and artillery attachments I understand - cav rides off, artillery gets left behind.
I would have thought that the officer would stay with the unit to try to rally it (assuming he is still alive of course!!).
If his unit breaks, he loses his aura of invincibility and falls back into the mass of normal commanders - losing his BC status.
Re: Commander Casualty test?
In the example I gave (unit a, unit b etc.) the commander was a division commander.
He survived the test taken when the unit lost the combat and routed, but appears to not have to take one when the unit was destroyed in the pursuit.
The comment about the officer attachment was more about clarification. The explanation for officer attachments on page 89 says:
Some units may be led by additional officers or by an officer who is of outstanding ability.
Surely his ability would not be immediately downgraded simply because his unit has suffered a reverse.
Considering that there would be a 33% chance to kill a BC anyway, if the unit he is attached to retires but doesn't rout, it still seems to me a little harsh to have him automatically die when a unit breaks.
He survived the test taken when the unit lost the combat and routed, but appears to not have to take one when the unit was destroyed in the pursuit.
The comment about the officer attachment was more about clarification. The explanation for officer attachments on page 89 says:
Some units may be led by additional officers or by an officer who is of outstanding ability.
Surely his ability would not be immediately downgraded simply because his unit has suffered a reverse.
Considering that there would be a 33% chance to kill a BC anyway, if the unit he is attached to retires but doesn't rout, it still seems to me a little harsh to have him automatically die when a unit breaks.
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deadtorius
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Re: Commander Casualty test?
Sorry thought he was a brigadier.
I believe in this case he is moved to the nearest friendly unit. May have to be within 10 Mu, can't recall exactly. If no friends in range then he died/ is captured, and will need to be replaced by one of his subordinate brigadiers. I am pretty sure it's an auto loss situation again.
As for brigadiers and broken units, I believe he is considered captured or killed. Short life span for many officers in this era.
I believe in this case he is moved to the nearest friendly unit. May have to be within 10 Mu, can't recall exactly. If no friends in range then he died/ is captured, and will need to be replaced by one of his subordinate brigadiers. I am pretty sure it's an auto loss situation again.
As for brigadiers and broken units, I believe he is considered captured or killed. Short life span for many officers in this era.
Re: Commander Casualty test?
On p43 (first bullet point) it says that a commander who is contacted by the enemy while on own must move to the nearest friendly unit within 10 MU, otherwise he is considered lost (captured).
I think it is perfectly reasonable to apply this rule in this situation, it solves the issue quite nicely. A commander who just had the unit he is leading disappear must be about the loneliest person on a battlefield
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It doesn't state this specifically, but I would assume that the unit he moves to must be one of his own command (division), and that he would be considered attached?
I think it is perfectly reasonable to apply this rule in this situation, it solves the issue quite nicely. A commander who just had the unit he is leading disappear must be about the loneliest person on a battlefield
.It doesn't state this specifically, but I would assume that the unit he moves to must be one of his own command (division), and that he would be considered attached?
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Blathergut
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Re: Commander Casualty test?
We've had instances where a divisional commander's entire division was wiped out and only he was left. We moved him to "nearest friendly unit" but he was unable to do anything for the rest of the game. One assumes he could just be removed.
Re: Commander Casualty test?
Seems to happen quite often to me ..... Usually with my Spanish division attached to the British.We've had instances where a divisional commander's entire division was wiped out and only he was left. We moved him to "nearest friendly unit" but he was unable to do anything for the rest of the game. One assumes he could just be removed.