reformed skirmisher attachments

[deadtorius]

Just wondering what others think of them. I have been playing the kings of unreformed armies, the Austrians, since the rules were released and recently have been starting a Russian army. Since I only have a few Russian infantry at present I have been using the Austrian 1813 list with Russian allies. First time out I bought the Russians skirmisher attachments but after the first game found it a waste of points I would much rather just give them artillery. I was wondering how others thoughts are on this.

[BrettPT]

I agree with you, musket skirmisher attachments to reformed infantry are not points effective, I never field them except in my French revolutionary army (where they are compulsory).

Rifle attachments are worth considering. In many cases (when enemy cav are around) they give you a net 2 extra dice, but generally artillery attachments are a better choice. The 2 dice artillery add at close range will often make the difference in stopping an enemy assault and makes the option of standing and shooting assaulting cavalry a possibility.

Having an artillery unit also makes me much more confident about launching infantry assaults myself. One of my favourite Austrian tactics is to assault with a large unit with attached artillery, hope to take 2 hits in defensive fire, decline to take a CMT to charge home, and then unload with 8 dice at close range. Sometimes works ....

[KeefM]

I share Brett's views in this UNLESS the skirmisher attachments are rifle in which case take as many as you are allowed for your non-rifle line units !!

In cost terms an average drilled light infantry unit brings 5 shooting dice for the same price as a line unit with a skirmisher attachment that gets only 4. Slightly better return for an average veteran line but still worse than the equivalent light unit at 60pts for 4 dice vs 64 for 5. But, if you aren't allowed light infantry maybe it's the only way to tool up your shooting.

Cavalry and artillery attachments are a better bet all round.

[Blathergut]

I think they are the best thing in the game! Get as many as you can!!!!

Pay no attention to the fact that the French will never use them!!!!

[KendallB]

Only use rifles skirmishers if I can. Not worthwhile for the Russians which use artillery or nothing - unless I can get cavalry, where I take as many as possible!

Popping off those pesky BCs on a 5 is fun!

[deadtorius]

My Austrians always get rifle skirmishers, I have never bothered getting musket armed Grenz for their skirmish attachment. As for the Russians, did up a sample 1812 list, every infantry unit can have artillery attached so they are all getting it

[Blathergut]

Time for the Army of Italy Swarm!!!!

[terrys]

The chance of scoring 2 hits with 3 dice is 25%
The chance of scoring 2 hits with 4 dice is 40%

So for a 20% increase in points you get a 60% better chance of causing cohesion losses (at medium range).
I think all attachments are good value and try to take as many as possible. (although rarely take attachments to artillery).
The only problem with them is that the points spent doesn't increase the size of you army.

[BrettPT]

In practice, you will often be deducting dice for enemy cavalry. So adding a musket skirmisher only gives an 11% chance of causing a cohesion loss. Another 2 points for rifles is well worth it to bring the odds up to 25%

At our recent tournament, i don't believe any of the 12 players fielded musket skirmisher attachments. Rifle attachments were common.

[nhaycock]

I did have 2 musket skirmish attachments but that was for 2 large conscript unreformed units where it is very good value to add them.

[deadtorius]

Skirmishers are always worth it for unreformed, regardless of training level. Bloody French took so many cav attachments my reformed Russians got less dice than my Austrians with attached jagers! So much for first time out with reformed vs reformed armies.

[bahdahbum]

If you play russian, do it the russian way . Take artillery .

Otherwise, SK attachments are still valuable

[deadtorius]

I maxed out on artillery attachments and guns for the army. You still only get 1 extra die for the arty attachment and lose two for enemy cav attached to your target, so down to 2 dice for an infantry unit. France targets with multiple units and artillery and shoots back with 12 dice or more so not likely I will be standing there after to get a shot in during their turn or my own shooting phase

[bahdahbum]

Yet , do it the russian way if you play russian do not forget to drink a lot of vodka before playing ( and while playing also ).

SK in reformed units still give you only 1 die ...same as artilleryand russians got more artillery than SK .

[KeefM]

For me it all comes down to how you intend to use your infantry. I try and think about any attachements being a bit like a fantasy army unit's upgrade with a +1 sword of smiting or +1 armour of resistance or a +1 ward of moving - ie what job does this unit have to do in the overall mix and therefore what tools does it need.

An artillery attachment is compulsory for me wherever permited by an army list for every small veteran Line unit for 2 reasons: a) pushing into close range for a 6 dice firefight, and b) I want to stand and shoot off a charging cavalry unit (even if failing the CT I will still shoot with 4 dice for 2 hits on average). For a drilled line unit, I will only give a small unit a gun attachment if I need them in the front line, and then primarily for defensive purposes, or if they are a large unit (for both attacking and defending).

For a medium range firefght I prefer a combination of light infantry and artillery (usually with a supporting veteran line infantry unit with a gun attachment for rushing into close range asap). Because shooting happens after assault but before movement (a game sequence mechanism which I think is fantastic BTB), there are lots of decisions to be made about how to set up a medium range firefight that takes account of what your opponent will do in response to that set up. Personally, I think that it is as much about the threat of that set up (compared to the actual shoooting) that forces the game along. Accordingly, IMHO, you can really only maximise the threat of your shooting by making sure you double-up units: 2 artillery units side-by-side are far more effective than 1; 2 light infantry untis ditto. Artillery certainly pack more punch (obviously) and aren't affected by cavalry but are somewhat harder to get into the medium range firefight action in the right place and at the right time (plus are in turn exposed to opposing light infantry). But, at some point, you still need to push into close range to finish off the job.

Anyways, for me, a skirmisher attachment doesn't boost my reformed infantry nearly as much as a gun attachment does simply cos they don't help defensively nor for the close range firefight (which is an essential part of breaking units).

But, if I was constrained by an army list in the number of light infantry units I could buy (and usually if I can't get 2 units then I would prefer to opt for none) then I would certainly consider up-gunning some line units with skirmishers for the medium range firefight. And skirmishers are compulosry buying if fielding unreformed infantry.

Equally, simply buy all the rifle skirmishers you can lay your hands on (effectively a mere 2pts buys you 2 dice of shooting in the presence of cavalry !!).

Anyhows, the economics is also worth looking at:

Reformed small Line AV + skir + gun = 70pts and shoot with 5 dice at medium range, 6 at close. Unreformed small Line AV + skir + gun = 58pts and shoot with 4 dice at medium range (8pts buys 3 dice !), 6 at close. Unreformed large Line AV + skir + gun = 78pts and shoots with 5 dice at medium range (8pts buys 4 dice !), 8 at close. Light AV = 64pts and shoot with 5 dice at medium range, 4 at close.

Reformed small Line AD + skir + gun = 58pts and shoot with 5 dice at medium range, 6 at close. Unreformed small Line AD + skir + gun = 50pts and shoot with 4 dice at medium range (8pts buys 3 dice !), 6 at close. Unreformed large Line AD + skir + gun = 66pts and shoots with 5 dice at medium range (8pts buys 4 dice !), 8 at close. Light AD = 48pts and shoot with 5 dice at medium range, 4 at close.