Another 4th rank of Pk question

[babyshark]

Here goes: if my 4-deep pike get hit in the flank or rear while fighting to the front I need to turn one base (not the front base, though) to indicate that they are fighting in two directions. Will they still count the fourth rank for POAs against either the front or flank/rear opponent? Will they even get a POA for the third rank if a clever opponent makes his flank attack hit the back two ranks, causing them to turn? Double-extra devastating to the Pk to get hit in the flank and to have that hit take away all their POAs.

This also applies to spear, I suppose.

Talk to me,

Marc

[rbodleyscott]

Here goes: if my 4-deep pike get hit in the flank or rear while fighting to the front I need to turn one base (not the front base, though) to indicate that they are fighting in two directions. Will they still count the fourth rank for POAs against either the front or flank/rear opponent?

No

Will they even get a POA for the third rank if a clever opponent makes his flank attack hit the back two ranks, causing them to turn?

No

Double-extra devastating to the Pk to get hit in the flank and to have that hit take away all their POAs.

We want pike being charged in the flank to be devastated!

However, remember that this only affects the file being attacked in the flank.

I am pretty convinced now, for various reasons, that pikes are much better run in 12s.

[Niceas]

I am pretty convinced now, for various reasons, that pikes are much better run in 12s.

More stuff is always better.

[rbodleyscott]

I am pretty convinced now, for various reasons, that pikes are much better run in 12s.

More stuff is always better.

Undoubtedly, but IMO 2 x 12 pikes is better than 3 x 8.

[shall]

I like 1 x 12s too!

Partly because you can rear support them with 1 BG of 6 average troops. I find the rear support us useful.

Also you can put a general in and get a decent upgrade.

Mind you top priority - whether 8s or 12s - is flank protection!!

Si

[Niceas]

I am pretty convinced now, for various reasons, that pikes are much better run in 12s.

More stuff is always better.

Undoubtedly, but IMO 2 x 12 pikes is better than 3 x 8.

I see your point about that.

[OldenTired]

I like 1 x 12s too!


Mind you top priority - whether 8s or 12s - is flank protection!!

Si

i'm inclined to agree. i used to put the 'spare' 8-element BG on the inside flank, but now run it on the 'outside' flank.

if anything nasty gets too close? into orb it goes.

[Montezuma49]

When looking at the rules I could not see any advantage for Pikes being in 4 ranks. Could you please explain where it is in the rules. I was looking at the number of dice you would throw for each base, is it under POA's ?

regards
Paul

[nikgaukroger]

It is indeed related to the PoA's.

Pikemen get a PoA for being in at least 3 ranks and if there is a 4th rank they get a second PoA.

There are exceptions to when they get these related to being Fraged, etc. - the PoA table shows these.

[Ironhand]

Yes. Pike if not fragmented or severely disordered get a + POA for a fourth rank.

[WhiteKnight]

monteczuma

you get a +1 POA both in impact and melee for the 4th pike rank unless the BG is fragmented. ( ... and that rank must be in open terrain)

[bigdamnhero]

Undoubtedly having 12 pike works much better in combat resolution also - especially against those pesky meat-grinding romans! That +2 for a fourth rank and being steady pike can really frustrate them boys!

[rich0101]

I like 3 bg's of 8 for the manueverability.

[lordmarc7]

Undoubtedly having 12 pike works much better in combat resolution also - especially against those pesky meat-grinding romans! That +2 for a fourth rank and being steady pike can really frustrate them boys!

Hi all.

Am I correct in saying then that a four deep block of pike vs legion combat, they fight on even POA in impact and the legions are - in melee?

[nikgaukroger]

At impact legiones are ++ for impact foot and the pike are + for pike >= 3 ranks and + for the 4th rank of pike - so the combat is equal.

In melee, assuming no disruption the pike get the same two + and so are ++, however, the legiones swordsmen/skilled swordsmen does not count against steady pike so they get nothing for that but of they are Armoured theyget a + for better armour thus the legiones are on a net - and the pikemen on a net +.

If the pikemen are disrupted then the legiones get a + for swordsmen and so the combat will be equal, although the pikemen will lose 1 dice per 3.

[rogerg]

Re WhiteKnights comment - we have discussed this recently. The front rank of the pikes must be in good going. The fourth rank just needs to be there.