Questions regarding contracting and expanding and movement

magedoc · Post by **magedoc** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:30 pm

1) Can you contract or expand or reform within 6" of the enemy?
2) Can you contract or expand or reform within 2" of the enemy's front (the restricted zone)? Even if such movement results in moving further away from the enemy base?
3) I am confused about the rules regarding a simple move. If a battle group fails it's CMT it can make a simple move, pg 43. The chart on pg 42 states that all troops, including undrilled, count any other forward move with no more than a single wheel as a Simple move. However, on page 41 it says that this is a difficult forward move unless all of the battlegroups movement is outside of 6" of the enemy or the battlegroup has a commander attached to it. So, what happens when an undrilled battlegroup fails a CMT within 6" of the enemy? What movement options do they have (for example can they make one wheel during a forward move?)

Sorry for the long post and thank you for a game with such promise.

Barry

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:33 am

1) Yes (although you may need to pass a CMT depending on what type of troops you are)

2) When in the restricted zone you can expand or contract but only if you remain in place, see the third bullet of restricted area rule on P74

3) You are not the only person who has had this problem. There are SIMPLE moves which don't need a CMT and COMPLEX moves which do. Some advances are DIFFICULT (note not complex, just difficult) a DIFFICULT advance is a COMPLEX move for other undrilled troops (i.e. not skirmishers or cavalry).

If an undrilled BG with no commander that is within 6" of the enemy fails a CMT all if can do is advance directly forwards at full speed or stay where it is.

To put things another way if you are doing an advance you only need to pass a CMT to do so if:

Your BG is other undrilled troops
AND You are or will pass within 6 MU of the enemy
AND There is no general with your BG.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:37 am

hammy wrote:2) When in the restricted zone you can expand or contract but only if you remain in place, see the third bullet of restricted area rule on P74

Unless I am mistaken you can expand but not contract.

shall · Post by **shall** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:56 am

Quite right Richard

This is encourage combat - no contracting backwards playing dogeball with the enemy for us!! Get in there instead.

Expanding allowed of course encourage this and is realistic.

Si

magedoc · Post by **magedoc** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:28 am

Thank you for you feedback and detailed response. It was very helpful.

Seldon · Post by **Seldon** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:51 pm

So this allows me to ask a simple quick question.
Undrilled troops can choose simply not to move even within 6" without having to test?
It is just that if they move they will have to test unless they want to do a full move...?

I interpreted that way but I could see someone reading that you have to test if you don't want to move at all so it is best to confirm..

"steady my gauls, steady"

seldon

pbrandon · Post by **pbrandon** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:57 pm

THere are potentially two different tests that you are referring to, especially as you mention Gauls.

The first is a test not to charge, which for instance impact foot have to take in most circumstances if they have enemy within charge reach. If they fail the test (which is the same CMT factors etc) they have to charge.

Then, assuming they have not charged, in the manoeuvre phase if they want to do other than move straight ahead their full move within 6MU of enemy (assuming no general), then they have to pass a CMT to do so. If they fail that CMT they can stand still.

Paul

Seldon · Post by **Seldon** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:21 pm

Leaving the charge test aside, I have no questions about that, I am curious about the CMT that determines what the undrilled troops will be able to do.

If out of charge range but within 6MU

I was playing it so that if I want to stand still I announce it and then I don't take the CMT as I am not trying to move, but if I want to move ( less than full ) and I take the CMT and fail, then I have to move as strictly speaking now I am forced to make a simple advance -not standing still-

any thoughts on this... it would seem a bit gamey to me to first take the CMT and if I fail choose to stand still to avoid having to do the full move

thanks
seldon

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:41 pm

Seldon wrote:any thoughts on this... it would seem a bit gamey to me to first take the CMT and if I fail choose to stand still to avoid having to do the full move

Nevertheless the rules allow you to do it.

I agree that in this situation it seems a bit gamey. OTOH consider another situation - you take a CMT to turn 90 degrees and fail - it would then seem a bit odd to force the BG to move a whole move straight ahead.

On the general principle of maintaining simplicity, the same rule applies to both - if you fail a CMT to make a Complex move, you don't have to move at all.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:42 pm

Seldon wrote:Leaving the charge test aside, I have no questions about that, I am curious about the CMT that determines what the undrilled troops will be able to do.

If out of charge range but within 6MU

I was playing it so that if I want to stand still I announce it and then I don't take the CMT as I am not trying to move, but if I want to move ( less than full ) and I take the CMT and fail, then I have to move as strictly speaking now I am forced to make a simple advance -not standing still-

any thoughts on this... it would seem a bit gamey to me to first take the CMT and if I fail choose to stand still to avoid having to do the full move

thanks
seldon

While you have a bit of a point what would happen if you had to take a test to stand still but were in a position where you simply could not make a full move?

Essentially any troops can always dither. Consider the failed CMT as their commander trying to get them to do something clever and the troops just not wanting to.

pbrandon · Post by **pbrandon** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:47 pm

The way we play it is that you can fail a CMT and choose not to move. I don't think anyone I have played has been uncomfortable with that. In fact I find it speeds the game up. Before I spend too much time wondering what a BG will do I often roll a CMT and if the unit fails, some of the moves I might have considered are no longer possible, so I need waste no time thinking about them.

Paul

Seldon · Post by **Seldon** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:48 pm

No problem, it is not the worst problem in the world... Understood, if I fail the CMT then I can choose to not move.. Gauls are happy

I understand all the points made and it makes a lot of sense...

cheers,
seldon