Overlapping ambushes reveals

[MikeHorah]

I don't know if anyone else has come across this situation - probably - but Terry Shaw ( FOG(AM) author as most will know) and I had a game recently and I had laid two ambush markers in a piece of covering terrain - at opposite corners and along the same front long edge. At some point I decided to reveal and move them forward voluntarily . It was immediately apparent I could not reveal both of them together as their bases when laid in accordance with the rules would have overlapped. ( As I recall I could not deploy any bases outside that terrain to either flank as there were other units in the way.

Clearly when laying ambush makers one needs to at least not put them side by side (I had not) but there is no minimum distance and if you spend time measuring up at the start when laying them it kind of reveals your hand.

Terry was unable to find anything in the rules that covered this situation and we made a joint adjudication . This was that was I could reveal one and then move it forward out of the cover. Then and only then could I reveal the other and move it ( if I wished) . It was not a tournament game so no big deal and it made no real difference to the outcome - my usual thrashing at his hands ( 'twas ever this in WRG) ! But we felt it was gap in the rules.

Any thoughts anybody? Has anyone ruled on the spacing for ambush markers in the same terrain before now?

[MikeHorah]

Sorry guys I meant to add this as a topic to the rules bit of the forum.

[lawrenceg]

I think the rule is "If you get yourself in a pickle with your own ambushes, it's your own fault".

I suggest bluffing your opponent by making careful measurements also for fake ambushes.

Is there a rule covering what happens to ambush bases that can't be placed for some reason?

[MikeHorah]

I think the rule is "If you get yourself in a pickle with your own ambushes, it's your own fault".

I suggest bluffing your opponent by making careful measurements also for fake ambushes.

Is there a rule covering what happens to ambush bases that can't be placed for some reason?

Fair enough of course and in this case I was relatively unaccustomed to playing in 15mm in FOG(AM) so it did not appear at first glance ,when I laid the markers, that I would have a spatial problem (In the same terrain in 28mm it would have been blindingly obvious to me! ) That Terry was unsure of the way to handle it was unusual of course as he is very sharp on these kinds of things in rules- one of the benefits in playing against him is you learn a lot about interpretations! So a bit of learning.

My regular FOG(AM opponent is as likely to get into this pickle too so I will want to ensure he knows what the right interpretation is to avoid an unhelpful dispute! I still haven't been able to convince him on the meaning of the Cavalry Light Spear POA in the impact phase ie that is only invoked as a tie breaker so ......


But the way the rules were worded for lay downs of ambushes seemed to allow one to do it, which defied common sense, so we had to decide how to approach it. In friendlies ( sic) one can agree how to handle situations not specifically covered in the words and diagrams. We could as easily have agreed that the second unit had to be placed behind the first .

I haven't got the rules handy as they are in my cabin and its cold out there just now but I seem to recall something about that were the ambush is revealed by the opponent moving to a material position and the unit cannot be laid.

[petedalby]

I believe the answer is on Page 152 - first bullet.

'Either player can reveal an ambush at any time in his own turn. He need not move the BG to do so, but must place it on table in the correct position.'

So you reveal the first BG in ambush. It cannot be deployed on top of the other ambush marker - otherwise you have a problem - see 2nd bullet. It can then move. You then reveal the 2nd BG and move that if you wish to.

The 2nd bullet - 'When a friendly BG will pass through an ambush marker, the ambush is revealed before the friends are moved.'

And page 151 tells us what happens if all of the bases can't be placed: 'A base that cannot be properly placed for any reason is lost.'

Hope that helps.

[hazelbark]

AS Pete said.

I would be prepared to end up losing basing in a competition with this problem.

But I think the way you played it was fine. The danger of that interpretation is you can stuff more troops into a terrain piece than ought to be allowed. I know you are limited to 3 but a piece of terrain a 4x6 piece can hold say 9 mounted, but I could load 3 BG of 6. Long day math may be off but you see my point.

[gozerius]

I don't think the rules need any massaging. You could try to squeeze more than will fit, but run the risk of losing some bases if you are forced to reveal them all at once. just one more piece of strategy to consider. Maybe they are coming out of the sewers like Stalingrad.
I'm surprised you couldn't push them out the back of the terrain. The rules only require that the BG has at least one base on the marker and the rest are no closer to enemy that can see them. Or am I missing something?

[MikeHorah]

Thanks to all for that help - very much clearer now! That 2nd BP which for some reason we did not spot ( ) sorts it out.

I have to say I rarely use ambushes especially in quite that way so it was a learning point, but it will be useful if I want to do a historical refight of Teutoburger Wald where it warrants more than 3 markers at least on the German side!