"A War without Boundary" -- a WW2 panoramic MP scenario(WIP)

[naturesheva]

Firstly, thanks for BNC's great scenario "The War of the World". http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=46533
Thanks BNC! You gave me hips of inspiration & ideas from your great work!

"A War without Boundary" will also based on a global scale map. Just like its name, there's almost "No Boundary" in this scenario! The map will be a huge world map with 500x150 hexes.

This scenario is still in very early stage. I've finished almost 1/3 of the drafting work. No units setting has been done. Scripts setting is 0% as well.

Basically this will be a MP map. However, comparing to a normal MP scenario, the huge map will provide better opportunities for players testing their strategical thinking, and hopefully provide better depth for gaming experience.

Because of the limit of the game engine, there will be only 2 sides, the Axis & Allies. Also, because of this reason, some historical wars like the Winter War will be hard to represent on this scenario.

The scenario will start at late 1936, will the breakout of Spanish Civil War. In late 1937, Players can start control China or Japan, for the Second Sino-Japanese War. After 1939, the Major part of this scenario will start. Start from invading Poland or declaring war to France first? It will all depend on the choices form the players.

The basic map setting is:
40 days per turn, 8 turns per year.
Units will based on a Corps to Field Army scale.
No weather changes. However, in extreme cold area, special type of terrain will be applied.

Here're some current map images I've made so far.


China & Japan


Central Europe, the red lines represents the national boundaries


Southeast Asia


Australia


And, the full image of the current scenario, V0.13

[BiteNibbleChomp]

You trying to steal my great work? - Don't worry, I think it is a good idea. I see you have included some stuff that I didn't (Rivers etc.) - Consider adding the Maginot Line?

- BNC

[naturesheva]

You trying to steal my great work? - Don't worry, I think it is a good idea. I see you have included some stuff that I didn't (Rivers etc.) - Consider adding the Maginot Line?

- BNC

Nice to see you replying here, BNC!

I do consider to add the Maginot Line. Another new thing I plan to add will be "heavy industrial area". However, still in idea stage~~

Need to finish mapping as the beginning~~!!

[McGuba]

Looks like a great map indeed.
Really GREAT. I mean big.

I especially like the way you represent the national borders.

Because of the limit of the game engine, there will be only 2 sides, the Axis & Allies. Also, because of this reason, some historical wars like the Winter War will be hard to represent on this scenario.

Well, you can set the Finns as Axis and the USSR as Allies...

Any chance for a single player scen as well?

[BiteNibbleChomp]

The single player scenario is my one - even with a smaller map (then again, you don't want Sunday night gaming taking your whole night, do you?).

- BNC

[naturesheva]

Looks like a great map indeed.
Really GREAT. I mean big.

I especially like the way you represent the national borders.

Thanks for the support! I'm personally very happy with the borders as well, but it really take time to draw the whole world, Coz you need draft it by each hexes manually... I wish I can figure out a quicker way in the future~~

Well, you can set the Finns as Axis and the USSR as Allies... .

I guess that's the only option then~~ However, if I do so, Germany will face USSR right after they invaded Poland.

Any chance for a single player scen as well?

Well, IMO, the biggest challenge for a SP scenario is the Setting for AI Actions, especially for such a big map. That's why I think a human opposite player will be the best solution for this issue.

Secondly, BNC has already made a similar global scale map, which is very well done.

I guess if the MP version has been finalized, I may give SP scenario a try?

In general, My intention is to make this scenario as close to history as possible as I can.
So I think there're still quite a lot of things to research and consider for this map.
Totally I guess I this finished 10% of the work, or maybe even only 5%? I really don't know.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I do think that you may want to use (steal ) some of my coding for the AI. Also, if it helps I have provided you with what zones are set up on my map, so that the codes make sense.

1: Poland
2: France
3: British Isles
4: Russia west of Chelyabinsk
5: Russia east of Chelyabinsk
6: USA
7: Germany
8: Italy
9: Norway
10: Sweden
11: Finland
12: Benelux
13: Spain, Portugal, Gibraltar
14: French West Africa
15: Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt
16: Ethipoia and surrounds
17: Pro-Allied Balkans
18: Pro-Axis Balkans
19: Turkey
20: British Convoys
21: South Africa
22: Canada + Alaska
23: Tokyo and Kyushu
24: China, 1936 Borders
25: India
26: Burma, Thailand + Singapore
27: Japanese Manchuria
28: Malaya, Dutch East Indies, Luzon and Hong Kong
29: Australia, New Zealand and Fiji
30: Hawaii Is.
31: Formosa, Okinawa and the Marianas Is.
32: Map Loop.

If you were to dump the convoy route, you could split Zn 12 into Belgium (12) and Continental Netherlands (20). Also, because of the 1936 start, you may want to dump the Map Loop system (still causing me trouble!) for Czechoslovakia.

I really like the borders as well. I thought of it when I started "War of the World" in November, but couldn't work out how to do it. Had to settle for the "A" markers used in Panzer Fury (whole of Europe, my first mod ever) - TELL ME HOW TO DO IT!!!

Winter War - I didn't include it because of the monthly turn scale and the size of the conflict was too small for it to be represented in my mod. I don't think that the border change was even equal to 1 hex!

I personally think that you would need to make the turns 14 days long, not 40. This is because if a hex in my scenario is equal to "8" in real distance (don't know how big they are exactly), and an Infantry can move 3x8 or "24" in a month, then if your hexes are "4" (Guessing that your hexes cover half the distance mine do) then an Infantry would still need to be able to do ~24 in a month, or 2 turns worth (4x3 =12 not 24), making it mean that fortnightly turns are needed to keep some sense of historical accuracy (yes, I understand it doesn't have to be the SAME as history - but it needs to be similar in most ways) It is possible to code >99 turns. War of the World had 107, and codes do work past turn 99. Ships will also need a massive change in how fast they go. With normal movement for a CA, on my map it would take 6 months for it to cross the Pacific, not around 1 1/2 -> had to make ship moves around 20, not like 5.

Let me know if there are any more questions about War of the World or changes to that that would work in this one. I will be happy to beta test it when it is ready (not an incredibly great player though (Lieutenant))! Find me in the WW1 camp on this forum

- BNC

[naturesheva]

Hi BNC,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions.

I'm in holiday at the moment, so cannot access to my PC now. Once I back home around 2 weeks after, I will send you the tile file for the borders. Basically I put them in the "station" layer.

[naturesheva]

And, I'll consider & steal some of your suggestions. I searched around with your map, some script setting is very interesting!
For the time of each turn, what I suggested before is only a rough idea, I need to do more reach on that. One reason I set one turn for 40 days is that I want control the whole scenario to be finished within 60-80 turns. Because this will be a MP scenario, I guess the shorter scenario is more playable and easier to test. I' ll definetly consider your suggestion, I'll also do some research on historical reality as well.

For the 32 zones you mentioned, I think that will be very helpful for me. Actually I really want figure out a way to have more zones, IMO, for such a big map, even 50 zones may still not be enough...

Thanks again!

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I don't believe that you would be able to add more zones. If you could it would involve duplicating certain parts of the gam efiles so that you go past Zone 32.

What you should also consider (I did this as well, but in a different form) is that you make each zone/country worth an amount of prestige per turn. Examples could be:

- Poland (with iron? mines) gives 75pp/Turn
- Romania (has oil) gives 200pp/Turn
- Belgium (no substantial resources) only is worth 10pp/Turn.

Set up the codes so that if:
- Axis have all flags in Zone 1 (Poland), they get 75pp at the end of turn
- Allies have all flags in Zone 1, they get 75pp at the end of the turn
- If both sides own part, then the country has no value at that turn (resources getting hit by artillery etc.)

I did something similar where if France is captured for the first time, it moves 50pp/t from the Allies to the Axis, and If D-Day happens then the 50pp/t is returned to the Allies. This isn't as likely to work as it can only change the value of pp/t once for each side, whereas the method I explained before can do it on a turn-based way of thinking.

As you will have to add a mod anyway (to add Pacific nations, Czechoslovakia and maybe Austria), you might as well play around with the ship movements. Not much point in having the ships on your gargantuan map if they take >18 months to cross an ocean.
In the mod, you may also want to consider making Italian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Romanian, US? and a few other nations' units not be able to be purchased until that nation enters the war. This does mean that you have to make the countries enter the game on their historical date, but stops random purchases by "neutral" nations (exception given to USSR, as the 1939 invasion is completely possible.)

With a map 500 hexes big (really 75k!) you don't really want to be limiting how long it takes. It makes little differnece at that size anyway, plus, you want to have bragging rights for "the largest turn limit ever given to a scenario" - I currently hold that record at 210 for Panzer Fury which I did in July.

I'm pretty much done making WWII scenarios (at least for now), so my ideas for WWII campaigns/scenarios are really avalible for the world. (No one steal my WWI ideas though - or i use a gas artillery to kill you !)

- BNC

[ThvN]

Actually, there is also a zone 33, this is the Reserve.

It is used in evacution scenarios, like Syracuse from GC'42-'43 West, where the number of units in a player's reserve will be checked against victory conditions. The editor displays this as option as 'reserve', but also as 'zone 33'. Seems to be hardcoded, so I guess adding more zones isn't possible.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Looking forward to the devlopments of this scenario soon! I have zeppelins in the ww1 campaign, so it may be interesting if a recon plane appeared for ww2 (Bf108?), and some more naval aircraft (Fw200).

- BNC

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Just a concern I thought up - how are the Soviet and German forces going to be removed from Spain once one side wins the civil war? An idea:
1. Set a trigger so that "When there are 0 of (a side) forces in Zone 13 (Iberia), set all hexes in Zn13 to become "Evacuation hexes for the opposing side"
2. On turn "March 1939" change all hexes in Iberia to not-evacution hexes.

Do step 1 for both sides. Make Gibraltar Fortress appear in Sep '39.

- BNC (And I want you to steal this idea!)

[BiteNibbleChomp]

- Can't work on War of the World 1.1 for the next 2 weeks - (you come back while I go on holiday!) Put the file up around the 25th Jan (Nation Borders).

- BNC

[huertgenwald]

How about working on the mod in your holiday, BNC ?

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I don't have a laptop, so I can only post using my 3ds. Been using this time to think about 1.1 a bit more - still looking forward to the border graphics.

- BNC

[naturesheva]

I don't have a laptop, so I can only post using my 3ds. Been using this time to think about 1.1 a bit more - still looking forward to the border graphics.

- BNC

Hi BNC,

Please check the tile file for the border.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/miwmowy6kdmv8 ... ations.png

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I'm back, and I got the file. Prepare to see War of the world 1.1 start rivalling your work even more! (might as well call this project "War of the World II", they are very similar now!)

- BNC

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Any more news on this mod?

Idea - Add Antwerp - it was a pretty important port.

- BNC

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Still waiting ... (waiting music is played here!)

Can't wait to see how the Low countries play - every mod changes them!

- BNC