Demo Game Scores

[honvedseg]

I STILL haven't beaten the last battle on VERY HARD, but have it down to a science in HARD mode. I recruited an extra cav unit before battle 2 (disbanded Velites after battle 1 to afford them), and an archer unit right before this one. The archer sits in the middle, flanked tightly by the Legionaries. The two Auxilia start a little apart from those, lined up on either side against the next pair of advancing Celts. The two cav units face the outboard Celt lights, preferably with the weaker cav against the Level 2 unit on the left. The general supports one of the cav to give his bonus. All are on advance.

The archers stop to shoot up one of the advancing light units for a few volleys, then I switch fire to one of the following Fanatics units. Contact with your other units begins against the first line of lights, and I wait until the cav units break their first opponents. As the second line of Celtic heavy troops begins its final charge, I turn the cav onto their flanks. The auxilia usually need a rally order by now, so I burn that command before they get into serious trouble. Fortunately, the Legionaries are generally capable of handling their own opponents for a while without help. With the hitting power of the cav added to the attrition caused by my auxilia, the outboard heavy Celt units eventually give way, sometimes before my Auxilia and sometimes after. The cav are now free to come to the aid of the beleaguered Legionaries, or to chase down that pesky skirmish unit that's been having a field day so far.

Even without any promotions, the sheer number of arrows expended over the course of the battle has earned my new archer unit a lot of kills, whereas a fresh Level 1 auxilia wouldn't have been able to stand up against the charging hordes. In most runs through this scenario, my units rarely had to face more than one enemy unit a a time, allowing them a chance for that Rally order to do its job before facing the second wave. I've gotten through this with as little as half the allowed number of casualties and almost a minute to spare on HARD, but if anyone makes it through this on VH, let me know, and I'll personally congratulate you.

[spedius01]

Ave honvedseg and tora_tora_tora,

I've just finished reading honvedsig's report and was prompted to dash off a swift response. What was your final kills/losses? I played through the battle last night, on normal, using the set-up I descibed to tora_tora_tora yesterday, my final kills/losses was 297/64. Not too good, eh? At least I managed to get through it with most of my army intact. I had implemented the promotion option "Disciplied Formations" for my two Auxilia units. The right-hand one smashed the light infantry unit and severly mauled a heavy infantry unit before it had to flee. It had a little help from the archer unit stationed to the rear. The Auxilia was 20/20, with xp of 1,096. The Auxilia on the left defeated it's opponent and I sent it after the archer unit it's kills/losses was 33/1 with xp of 811. My main destroyer of the enemy was the first of my two legionary units it's score was 120/23, for which it gained a massive 5,172 xp, the second was 67/5 it's xp was 3,380. The archers had a kills/losses of 17/0 and xp of 1,013, not bad with only 15 arrows, mind you they were marksmen! Maybe a couple of their arrows killed two enemy each? The three cavalry units kills/losses were 9/4, 10/3 and 12/8. Their xps were 378, 540 and 720. Finally the velites kills/losses were 9/0 with xp of 417. Everyone got promoted except for the Legate, who stayed out of the fight, and the first of my three cavalry units. This to tora_tora_tora, how are things progressing with your experiments of an army of only one troop type?

Keep well,

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

PS. How do you "switch fire" with your archers?

[honvedseg]

Just give the archers the usual right-click on the new target to attack, same as for the other units. Of course, it does use an order, so make the change early enough so you recover your order points before you need them elsewhere.

It's been a while since I played the demo on NORMAL, so I'd have to go back and try it once more to see what kinds of kills/losses scores it generates. On HARD, I did manage to break the 7500 fame level, and was already in the 11,000 or more category even before the last battle on VERY HARD.

[spedius01]

[quote="honvedseg"]Just give the archers the usual right-click on the new target to attack, same as for the other units. Of course, it does use an order, so make the change early enough so you recover your order points before you need them elsewhere."]

Ave honvedseg,

Thanx for the info. When next I play I shall have to remember it, very useful. I will look forward to reading your report if and when you decide to play the demo on normal.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

PS. When I right click on the archer's new target, they won't march off, band playing, to fight them?

[tora_tora_tora]

I'm trying pure Auxilias on normal level right now.
In Demo Campaign, the first two battles are relatively easy for light infantries due to terrain.
The first battle is swamp, the second battle is dense forests.
The problem I've had right now is what promotion I should choose.
To prepare my units against the third and fourth battle's enemy cavalries, I need some dedicated anti-cavalry specialists.
But, in the last battle, enemy is composed of infantry units only, so, you should not have too much anti-cavalry specialists.

swamp
forests in snow
river crossing
huge cavalries
horde of infantries, first wave light infantries, second wave heavy infantries

[spedius01]

[quote="tora_tora_tora"] The problem I've had right now is what promotion I should choose."]

Ave tora_tora_tora,

Regarding your promotions problem for the Auxilia, try "Disciplined Formations" and on the "Deployment Screen" choose "Disciplined and Offensive". My advice, for what it's worth, is to keep trying all variations imaginable until you find what works. Keep detailed notes of everything you try, so that you can refer back to them. Remember, Legion Arena is a linear progression game, it's logical and therefore can be beaten if you hit it with unorthodox tactics.

Good luck, keep me posted of your progress.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

NB. The promotions option "Disciplined Formations" first becomes available to the Auxilia when promoting them from level 5 to 6.

[honvedseg]

I ran through the demo campaign on NORMAL for experimental purposes, and went into the final battle with the leader, 2 cohorts of Legionaries, 2 Auxilia, 2 Ala of Cavalry, and a unit of Archers. I gave one unit of Auxilia the "Disciplined" promotion, the other I bumped up their Armor Penetration, and the difference was startling, with the second unit getting pummeled. Final Kills/Losses were 263/45, with roughly 50 seconds on the clock remaining. After breaking the initial wave of attackers, I sent the cavalry to the aid of the infantry and sent the Legate off alone to tie up the enemy skirmishers, at least until I had another free unit to relieve him. The individual unit Kills/Casualties and XP for the battle were as follows:

Legate - 7/0 195
Legion - 46/6 2176
Legion - 68/7 2769
Auxilia - 22/2 1190 (Disciplined)
Auxilia - 24/21 1494 (Penetration)
Cavalry - 45/1 2094
Cavalry - 38/8 1342
Archers - 13/0 854

I'm tempted to run through the battle again to see if I can tweak the scores a little higher on the second try. After giving all the promotions and buying all the goodies with the spoils from this battle, I really regret that I can't use them again.

[spedius01]

Ave honvedseg,

Very impressive and informative, (10/10 for presentation).

The first four maps each present a different tactical problem, have you found them instructional, or merely obstacles to be overcome in order to get to the "Final Battle"? I prefer the big maps rather than the smaller ones, don't you agree? I enjoy trying out alternative combinations of troop types to get the maximum kills/losses ratios, highest xp and lowest fame reductions. (1 loss = 5 fame) No matter how many variations I try, I don't seem to get bored or disillusioned by this game.

It's very addictive, isn't it?

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

PS. You like the "Disciplined Formations" for the Auxilia too?

[tora_tora_tora]

My units are one general and one praetorian.
With all the denaris, I improved this praetorian every goods possible.
Once in the battle preparation campaign,
check the distance from enemy lines, and put your praetorians on the open ground, and press the button.
It's awesome.
No difficulty to the end. My final army is one praetorian at level 11 and a general with expert leadership.
New formation I've got is wedge and something else, which I forgot.

Maybe, at Hard level and Very Hard level, thing would not go this easy, I guess.

[honvedseg]

The earlier battles leading up to the final confrontation aren't obstacles in the way, but are opportunities to be grasped. These battles give your troops the skills and confidence they will need to face the big test. The short-term objective is to win the battle, but from a long-range perspective you want to put the units into the situations where they can milk as much experience from the enemy as possible, especially the units which will need that training the most.

I gave my cavalry the pivotal role in the early battles, and added a second cav unit after the first scenario, in order to give them as much exposure to combat as possible. The resulting kills/losses statistics show that they were about as effective in the kills category as the Legionaires, at 500 versus 800 points per unit, and with not that much difference in experience level (8 and 7 versus 7 and 6). The auxilia without the "Disciplined" formation were relatively ineffective, with it they were nearly as powerful as the heavy infantry. The Legate needs an escort against both formed infantry and cavalry, but tore into the skirmishers like a chainsaw through cardboard. The archers, in spite of very limited experience, did a reasonably effective job of paring down incoming units to make them easier victims for the melee troops.

The full version of the game should show up any day now, which will give me an extra-large stack of new units and tactics to try.

BTW - signalling your archers to attack an enemy unit won't cause them to rush into hand-to-hand, unless they're already out of arrows, but they WILL advance into shooting range, which could bring them into charge range of other enemy units between the two. Use this order with just a hint of caution.

[spedius01]

Ave honvedseg,

Thank you for your swift and detailed response.

Have you received the full game yet? You will notice a difference, instead of only six troop types to recruit from you will have seventeen? Seventy campaigns instead of just five, plus the Celtic campaign! You will really be able to fine tune your leadership skills. You will have to face the Elephants of Pyyrhus and Hannibal! It's quite a lot to look forward to.

Have you had any more interesting experiences with the demo?

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

PS. Thanks for the update and caution on the archers' switching fire problems.

[honvedseg]

The full version of the game arrived yeaterday, so there have been no more runs through the demo, and may not be for quite a while. The starting mix and recruitment options are very different, and the funds are in a bit shorter supply, early on, than in the demo.

[tora_tora_tora]

Now, as Legion Arena will be avalilable in January, I'm still playing Demo Campaign.

And trying how few units do I need to finish the Demo campaign to the end.
one praetorian and one legate, you can finish at the Normal Level, but not survive the first battle at the Hard level, I suppose.
So, maybe two praetorians or two legionaries with lots of items work, I hope.

And after that, I try to finish with as many units as possible.
For example, with 19 velites, I ouhgt to be very careful not to expend even one unit. I can't use my unit as bite. Theyare very fragile,
easy to collapse. And with 19 units, you cannot get then experienced throughly.

[spedius01]

The full version of the game arrived yeaterday, so there have been no more runs through the demo, and may not be for quite a while. The starting mix and recruitment options are very different, and the funds are in a bit shorter supply, early on, than in the demo.

Ave honvedseg,

I'm pleased to read you've finally received the full version! Enjoy!

Here's something for you to consider, I agree that "in the beginning" the funds and options are sparse, but if you read my discourse in "Your First Promotion" you do have a few alternatives.

My solution is to disband both Militia and Skirmishers and recruit another unit of Scouts. I fight my first four battles with an all cavalry army of three units, the Legate plus two Scouts. Then I recruit a unit of Auxilia. If you also read "My Final Army" you will see the structure of the army I've chosen.

An item I've found most useful is the "Design a Multiplayer Army offline" button accessed from the "Army Camp" page. You can experiment with all manner of promotions and equipment upgrades to see what effect they have on the unit's stats.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

[tora_tora_tora]

I tried to finish as few units as possible.
And two legionaries and two cavalries got me through the end.
Point is how far you put your cavalries from the first wave light infantires.
And make sure cavalry got entangled into melee combat.Several times, they got pinched between first waves and second waves.

Maybe, two praetorians with boots work, but I try not to use both of them.
You know, it's easy to understand that standard cheers those little guys, and that better armor and sharper swords do work.

<combined arms
only two kind of units, maybe this is not what people call combined arms.
So I will try three kinds of units, Auxilia, Legionary, Cavalry or Archer, next time, and as few units as possible.

By the way, I sometimes feel if I had another Legate, one more general.
Are there any way to have depuy or chieftain hero or something like that?
I've heard there are some items which have leadership circle around them.

[duncan]

By the way, I sometimes feel if I had another Legate, one more general.
Are there any way to have depuy or chieftain hero or something like that?
I've heard there are some items which have leadership circle around them.

AFAIK, it's not possible. In fact, you "are" the legate, so it makes sense to have only one. But you can buy him/yourself some advantages as soon as you get experience and you can increase your legate's influence radius. For the units, you can buy a standard for them. As long as you don't loose it (remember Teutoburg), it will boost the morale of that unit. Don't know about surrounding units right now...

BTW, you can order the game right now from Slitherine

[tora_tora_tora]

In fact, you "are" the legate
BTW, you can order the game right now from Slitherine

Thank you, duncan. Well, I've heard there are Titus Labienus during Caesar's Gallic campaign, for exsample.
And thank you again for your information. But I want to buy at the shop nearby, or somewhere like Akibahara.


At very Hard level, it's really hard to customize your army, I realized.
I tired three archers and one praetorian, but at the second map, forest in the snow, my army cannot survive.
Maybe, that path in the forest is key point. Archers are poor shooters when they are in the woods.

P.S.
I finished one praetorian and three archers, though, I could not get my archers experienced. At the end of demo campaign, they are at level 3, 4, and 5.
And I also finished with three legionaries with "protection from infantry".

By the way, I just want to order these little guys "Just follow me, whereever I go, you go. Whomever I fight against, you also fight against"
If I can order like this, then my Legate will never ride into enemy heavy cavalry alone.

P.S.2
I also finished two praetorians at very hard level. Though I could not raise their level as I wanted. From level 10 to 11, you can promote with new formation. I want to emlpoy them in new formation, but It's really hard.
Anyway I realized roman army need at least one heavy infantry. But I'm not sure how many light infantrie do I need and which type is suitable.
Maybe, with auxiliary cavalry with tarample skills, and send them somewhere enemy's rout passage, I can have level10 or over unit.

[tora_tora_tora]

with the help of weapon 3 and armor 3 and some new formation,
At normal level, I can finish to the end with 3 Auxilias and 4 Archers.

So, the biggest challenge is how to win pure Velites army. Problem is the last battle, siege of Alesia.
Maybe, some Velites to outfrank enemy first waves lihgt infantries and second waves heavy infantries and attack enemy rear guard skirmisher,
while all the others waiting in the forest can work. Skirmishers on open ground is vulnerable against heavy infantries, not hard to understand.

P.S.
I realize light infantries with protecion against cav. and inf. and items such as boots and armor, means stout defense wall.
SO, next time, I try to promote some veiltes in this way, and get archers experienced to higher levels.

I'm wondering archers need line of sight, so they change their formation when they are ordered to fire different enemy unit.
Thy have to see where arrow should fall, or at least it's direction. So,simply change your direction wouldn't work. hmm, sounds theoritical, but I'm not sure, true or not. Anyone knows? Have you ever fired in mass like those arhcers?

[tora_tora_tora]

They trumple sometimes against defeated enemy troops, which is hard to believe, but they do.
And one of my troops reached level 13, and they got heavy missile, which mean heavy javelinhead or something like that.
With dodge, advanced dodge, expert dogde promotion, they got very high agilities. Maybe this is the reason they could trample.

Well, next time, I'll combined two velites in tight formation, to overlap each other, and wait enemy troops to rout.
If things works well, I get plenty of golden horse shoes up in the air.

[sum1won]

No, but they get the same formations as cavalry, and the offensive one gives them trample.