Three questions from the last game

[Ghaznavid]

During our game last night three questions cropped up that we could not answer even after some searching in the rules.

1.) A BG of Light Horse was attacking some Light Foot, the slingers evade and get away. Now can the Light Horse move normally during the manoeuvre phase? I would assume no, but we couldn't find anything in the rules that forbids it. The closest thing seems to be pursuers who lose contact only being able to move normally in their next turn.

2.) A BG of Pikes fighting some Legionaries. The Pikes overlap the Legionaries on one side. During the impact Phase they lose one Element. We took that Element from the file fighting not the one in overlap. The question is now can they shuffle the 4th rank element from the overlap to the file in direct contact?
The rules allow this only if this allows the element to take part in the combat by fighting or providing a POA, which technically it does in overlap as well, just that it makes no difference there (as the 1st '+' just makes it harder for the opponent to hit, but there is no opponent to an overlapping file).

3.) Two BG of pikes fight two BG of Legionaries. Legion 1 routes the Phalanx it is fighting. The 2nd phalanx is unfazed and merrily routes the Legion it is fighting (Legion 2). Now, after completing the remaining combats etc. Legion 1 has to test for the rout and... fails, unless Caesar, who is close by but not with Legion 1, can make his influence felt.
The question is does a BG that broke all it's opponents still counts as being in close combat or not?
And if yes, how about pursuers who remain in contact, do they also count as being in close combat?



Thanks,

Karsten

[sagji]

During our game last night three questions cropped up that we could not answer even after some searching in the rules.

1.) A BG of Light Horse was attacking some Light Foot, the slingers evade and get away. Now can the Light Horse move normally during the manoeuvre phase? I would assume no, but we couldn't find anything in the rules that forbids it. The closest thing seems to be pursuers who lose contact only being able to move normally in their next turn.

See top of page 70

2.) A BG of Pikes fighting some Legionaries. The Pikes overlap the Legionaries on one side. During the impact Phase they lose one Element. We took that Element from the file fighting not the one in overlap. The question is now can they shuffle the 4th rank element from the overlap to the file in direct contact?
The rules allow this only if this allows the element to take part in the combat by fighting or providing a POA, which technically it does in overlap as well, just that it makes no difference there (as the 1st '+' just makes it harder for the opponent to hit, but there is no opponent to an overlapping file).

The correct procedure is that you MUST loose the FRONT rank base, and that this is immediately replaced - see p116. This is not the same as feeding more bases into combat, so those restrictions don't apply.

3.) Two BG of pikes fight two BG of Legionaries. Legion 1 routes the Phalanx it is fighting. The 2nd phalanx is unfazed and merrily routes the Legion it is fighting (Legion 2). Now, after completing the remaining combats etc. Legion 1 has to test for the rout and... fails, unless Caesar, who is close by but not with Legion 1, can make his influence felt.
The question is does a BG that broke all it's opponents still counts as being in close combat or not?
And if yes, how about pursuers who remain in contact, do they also count as being in close combat?

Thanks,

Karsten

I believe you are in close combat if your front edge is effectively in contact with the enemy. So your BG remains in close combat untill either it fails to persue routers, or its persuit is insufficient to remain in contact. In this case the routers havent moved yet so you are still in close combat.

[hammy]

3.) Two BG of pikes fight two BG of Legionaries. Legion 1 routes the Phalanx it is fighting. The 2nd phalanx is unfazed and merrily routes the Legion it is fighting (Legion 2). Now, after completing the remaining combats etc. Legion 1 has to test for the rout and... fails, unless Caesar, who is close by but not with Legion 1, can make his influence felt.
The question is does a BG that broke all it's opponents still counts as being in close combat or not?
And if yes, how about pursuers who remain in contact, do they also count as being in close combat?

I believe you are in close combat if your front edge is effectively in contact with the enemy. So your BG remains in close combat untill either it fails to persue routers, or its persuit is insufficient to remain in contact. In this case the routers havent moved yet so you are still in close combat.

Having checked the definition of close combat ends when your opponent breaks see P134. Thus in this case as long as JC was not himself involved in close combat he could add to the cohesion test of the victorious legionaries.

[rbodleyscott]

Having checked the definition of close combat ends when your opponent breaks see P134. Thus in this case as long as JC was not himself involved in close combat he could add to the cohesion test of the victorious legionaries.

Not sure about that. You are right about the close combat ending when the enemy break. However, although I don't have the rules to hand, I think they say than generals fighting in the front rank can't stop "fighting in the front rank" until the BG loses contact with enemy. What the exact wording re affecting the CTs of other BGs is I also don't recall.

I will leave you to try to figure it out Hammy

[Ghaznavid]

Thanks for the answers so far... although I've to say, hiding important rules in the preface of a section is pretty darn sneaky. I would not have thought the Authors are THAT devious.

As for the third question, the IC was not involved in any combats (although that would be an interesting spin off question). The question is simply from what point on can a commander influence a BG he is not in contact with again? Immediately after that BG routed all their opponents? After the BG made the first pursuit move? Or only after that BG lost all physical contact with the enemy?


Thanks,

Karsten

[shall]

Almost right .... Richard memory that there is something else is correct

In additin to Hammy's definition of close combat..........

This is covered on page 99 : " the commander cannot leave the front rank of that battle gorup until it is no longer in close combat AND no longer in contact with enemy routers".

So the general is stilll in contact with routers so cannot leave the fron rank but as he is now out of close combat his command rang reppears and he can affect other BGs now.

Si

[Ghaznavid]

So the Legion could have been influenced by the IC. Thanks... and darn it, might have saved me the game.