1.1.9 feedback

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boulugre
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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1.1.9 feedback

Post by boulugre »

Ok I more or less finished my first game on 1.1.9, here is my feedback.

I played a game with the same game settings than the one I tested on 1.1.8 to be able to judge the difference on the AI behavior. So small pangea, 3 peaceful factions on very hard and me as the religious faction.

Overall I would say the AI has done progress, but is not perfect yet.

During the colonial era the AI was doing a great job to produce and upgrade its troop, I saw very early armor upgrades, a lots of avenger tanks and various devices used (even a couple of artillery! :P ) Alien nests were cleared really quick, sign that the AI armies had more punch. One AI even had an alien queen sitting in its cap, first time I see that. Should an AI had attack me at this stage it would have been really tough to win the war.

Things however got weird during the mecha era, with the AI starting to produce some mecha infantry, but then suddenly switching back to its previous behaviour of piling up loads of colonial infantry and non upgraded mecha infantry. There was a then a looong period where I saw nearly no improvement in the AI military, just more and more colonial troopers with just a few good level mecha infantry. No more tanks, no planes, no artillery...

Things start moving a little in the Trans era, with the AI doing a better job at producing transcendence infantry, but nothing impressive enough to make a difference. I attacked terra Salvum once they built black holes, around turn 300, and I totally crushed them. They had however a lot of trans infantry around strength 40 and a bunch of scary strenght 80 NU aircrafts, but they made no difference as I was able to do a lot of damage with my artillery.

Once I conquered TS I stopped the game as the 2 other faction had really outdated armies, unable to compare with what I had.

One interesting thing to notice however : For some reason terra salvum outperformed the 2 other AI big time and actually manage to keep a better tech rate than me for most of the game. TS army was way superior to the 2 others, with more and better upgraded troops. Seem to me the AI economic development is to weak to follow up with its production and refit routines, making him believe he can only afford low quality troops.

To conclude I found the AI overall a little stronger ( or shall I say a little less weak?) but still not performing as strongly as it should. I really think you should find a system to make the AI stop producing outdated troops. Producing strength 5 infantry in the late mecha era is just useless.

I have made saves at the same turn then previous game so you can have a look and compare the level of the AI armies.

Other comments and observations :

- Tech tree works now perfectly, well done

- I noticed AI did not prioritize nukes, and they came really late in the game. Not sure if i was a particularity of this game or you change it, but I liked it ;-)

- AI still don't build the morale improvement buildings, this need to change as it gives a massive advantage to human player. In transcendence era its very easy for human player to double your power in terms of military, research and economy leaving the AI far behind. In all my games I played until Trans era I always end up with a science output at least 2 times more important than the AIs one. I think the fact AI doesn't build the morale improvement buildings is partly responsible for that.

- I never saw the AI building the late game improvment such as the double move or psy upgrade ones ? If they also do not build the +25% production output and +25% science one that would also explain why its so easy to leave the AI behind in late game.

- Alien spawn rhythm is not affected by the pace of game. I tried to play a marathon game on very high alien settings. I barely survived the wave of aliens but had to stop the game because half the AI factions on the map had been wiped out. While it takes you twice as much time to produce an unit, alien are not affected by this making the game broken.
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boulugre
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by boulugre »

Second save file
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boulugre
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by boulugre »

And the third one!
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ErissN6
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by ErissN6 »

boulugre wrote:, but they made no difference as I was able to do a lot of damage with my artillery.
Combined with the 'attack instead of moving' tool, that's even more deadly. Maybe Artillery is to be nerfed a little. Maybe, like for snipers, they have to do less damage if enemy is already disminished.
- AI still don't build the morale improvement buildings, this need to change as it gives a massive advantage. In transcendence era its very easy to double your power.
Maybe morale, or its buildings, is too to be nerfed a little.
- Alien spawn rhythm is not affected by the pace of game. I tried to play a marathon game on very high alien settings. I barely survived the wave of aliens but had to stop the game because half the AI factions on the map had been wiped out. While it takes you twice as much time to produce an unit, alien are not affected by this making the game broken.
With medium alien aggression, marathon pace already can be though, but it makes the game more interesting. I agree AI must be more defensive if the pace is bigger.
boulugre
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by boulugre »

ERISS wrote:
boulugre wrote:, but they made no difference as I was able to do a lot of damage with my artillery.
Combined with the 'attack instead of moving' tool, that's even more deadly. Maybe Artillery is to be nerfed a little. Maybe, like for snipers, they have to do less damage if enemy is already disminished.
Artillery already does decreasing damages. its very hard to 'finish' a unit if you don't one shot it on the first strike.

I don't think artillery should be nerfed, it's the only tool that enables you to weaken city garrisons and prevent stacks of doom other than nukes/black holes and it brings another dimension to the combat system.

The trick there is more to teach the AI to build and use them.... If the AI sticked one or 2 artillery unit in each of their cities that would give them a counter to human controlled artillery.

Talking of artillery there is still a bug involving experience gain: When unit dies from being bombarded by artillery, the surviving units in the stake will gain experience, as if they had killed the unit themselves. In this game I bombarded a city full of colonial and mecha infantry, all the colonial infantry died, instantly boosting all the other mecha infantry to level 10.
Belanos
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by Belanos »

ERISS wrote:
boulugre wrote:,
I agree AI must be more defensive if the pace is bigger.
Well if my last game was any indication, I'd have to agree. Out of the 6 factions on a Huge/Marathon map, only 2 of us survived. Which made for a rather boring endgame, especially since the only remaining AI was on a different continent and not expanding all that quickly. I pretty much had the whole planet to myself at that point. If they can't be programmed to better against the aliens, then they should be given bonuses so they can survive until the later game.

Also, they shouldn't be using Black Hole Generators on aliens. Talk about overkill! I noticed a big mess near a city belonging to the "Green" faction and couldn't figure out what it was. After having a test run of the generator I realized that it was the mess left over after using one. But since she and I were not at war and there were no other existing AIs, the only enemy she could have used it against would have to be an alien. And it certainly made no sense that she would use one right within the border of her own city. And it didn't seem like she was making any effort to clean up the mess.
void
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by void »

Thanks for the feedback guys! Once I'm done with the demand war declaration / peace offer to third party diplomacy option (which should have been in weeks ago) I'll have another look.

Also, AIs should clean up Wasteland in their borders. If they don't it's a bug.
Lorenz Ruhmann
Proxy Studios
greatUnknown
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by greatUnknown »

Belanos wrote:
ERISS wrote:
boulugre wrote:,
I agree AI must be more defensive if the pace is bigger.
Well if my last game was any indication, I'd have to agree. Out of the 6 factions on a Huge/Marathon map, only 2 of us survived. Which made for a rather boring endgame, especially since the only remaining AI was on a different continent and not expanding all that quickly. I pretty much had the whole planet to myself at that point. If they can't be programmed to better against the aliens, then they should be given bonuses so they can survive until the later game.

Also, they shouldn't be using Black Hole Generators on aliens. Talk about overkill! I noticed a big mess near a city belonging to the "Green" faction and couldn't figure out what it was. After having a test run of the generator I realized that it was the mess left over after using one. But since she and I were not at war and there were no other existing AIs, the only enemy she could have used it against would have to be an alien. And it certainly made no sense that she would use one right within the border of her own city. And it didn't seem like she was making any effort to clean up the mess.
There is a tendency for the AI to use WMD on hives. Saw it happen several times. I don't know if this earns any credits, since I haven't tested this kind of overkill yet.
jdmillard
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by jdmillard »

greatUnknown wrote:There is a tendency for the AI to use WMD on hives. Saw it happen several times. I don't know if this earns any credits, since I haven't tested this kind of overkill yet.
I did it once. On an enormous planet, there was an entire island that had been left untouched even after transcendence era. I knew that the AI will always look for a place to expand to, and I was too lazy to go colonize it myself because all of my cities were developed already. So I wanted to just leave the entire place desolate, radioactive, and no special resources. I did destroy a lot of hives with operations and I never got credits from it (as expected).
Belanos
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by Belanos »

void wrote: Also, AIs should clean up Wasteland in their borders. If they don't it's a bug.
I was watching for awhile with a unit in the area and I didn't see any sort of activity. There were a few tiles I couldn't see though. Even still, they shouldn't be using those types of weapons on low grade targets like aliens. She had more than enough fire power with her ground troops to take care of them. And she definitely shouldn't have it them within her own borders. She just created more problems for herself than the initial threat was worth.
boulugre
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Re: 1.1.9 feedback

Post by boulugre »

greatUnknown wrote: There is a tendency for the AI to use WMD on hives. Saw it happen several times. I don't know if this earns any credits, since I haven't tested this kind of overkill yet.
I remember a game where I had a former building a road trough the territory of Noxium corporation. I decided to attack Noxium and declared on him, totally forgetting about my former where about, alone in Noxium lands and surrounded on all side by swarms of enemy infantry.

The first act of war of Noxium was to nuke this former, right in the middle of his territory, destroying his land and improvement while he had like 10 unit around the former that could have killed my poor former :lol:
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