Early Germans vs Principate Romans

[Niceas]

650 points. Romans used one of Nik G's lists off his website. Germans were extrapolated off of the Gaullic list.

Germans
3 FC, 2 TC's
6 BGs of warriors 8-10 stands, heavy foot, average, protected all impact foot.
1 BG of javelin men 10 stands, average unprotected javelins
1 BG of cavalry, 6 stands average protected, light spear swords men

Romans
3 TC's
3 BG's of Legionarries, superior, sk swordsmen, armored 4 stands each
LF archers to support them. 6 stands bow superior

2 BG's of auxilia. average, armored, light spear swordsmen 6 stands each
2 BG's of poor unprotected slingers.

1BG of Equites Illyricani average, unprotected, javelins 4 stands
1BG of Equites sagittarii average, unprotected, bow 4 stands
1BG of Equites, average, armored, light spear, swordsmen 4 stands
1BG of Clibinarii, superior, heavily armored, lancers, swordsmen

Romans lost the initiative. We were fighting in woodlands, and Roman left flank ended up with a river on it, a gentle hill in the German right flank zone towards the center, behind it a wood extending to the board edge, and two more woods in a line from that wood to the Roman right flank.

Roman step put the Clibinarii on the left flank in a single line, the Equites, and covered to the front by the horse archers.
Legions in a line in the center, the Auxilia in a line to the right of the legions, and the javelin armed light horse just in front of the slingers piled up in the wood on the Roman left flank.

Roman camp was behind the Roman center, the German camp was on the German Right by the river.

German set up was badly thrown off by all the woods. the German lights tried an ambush in the center woods, it didn't work out. One of the Roman auxilia BGs charged, chased through the woods out the other side and eventually caught them in the open (down two, up two it just happens sometimes) and ran them off the table.

2 German warbands and a general on the German left chased off the Roman light cavalry, but were then stopped short of the right flank wood, where the other Roman auxilia group and the slingers taunted them from the woods, disrupting the Germans at one point with massed sling stones. The Germans made all their CMT tests to keep from from going sponno into the woods.

on the Roman left, the Roman cavalry advanced quickly, the horse archers ineffectually peppering a warband and being dusted off by a charge. The Roman Clibanarii, then charged in broke into the warband, but did not break them, broke off, charged again, and then finally broke the warband with some wicked big dice, and pursued them back into the German camp which was promptly burnt.

The Roman regular cavalry gained the top of the hill and charged a warband on the other side of it that had just come out of the wood behind the hill, disrupted them and stayed stuck in. The German cavarly charged them in the flank and broke them, chasing the Roman cavalry back across the field getting shot at by both the horse archers and the javelin armed cavalry (that had by this time ridden over from the Roman right flank). The shoots was very ineffectual.

In the center, two of the Roman legion BGs were able to charge one of the German warbands and eventually broke them after 3 or 4 turns of hard fighting. The Roman and German C-in-C's intervened, the Roman C-in-C getting a spear through the gullet for his trouble, but the legions carried on without him. The warband broke, and the Roman pursuit caught another in the flank (which had been trying to come around one end of the fight). If we did it right, and we're not sure we did, that warband went down a cohesion level for getting hit in the flank, and then it it rolled a 3 on its cohesion test for its friend routing with in 3 MU's. It broke, and the German army routed.

End result, the Roman lose on BG of cavalry, the Germans two BG's of warband, 1 BG of lights, and had their camp sacked.

The light archers supporting the Romans both added a die or two and some bulk to the Roman legionnaire BG's and were pretty crucial.

[Phaze_of_the_Moon]

Germans
3 FC, 2 TC's

Really?!?!?!

[stecal]

Germans
1 FC, 2 TC's
3 BGs of warriors 10 stands, heavy foot, average, protected all impact foot.
3 BGs of warriors 8 stands, heavy foot, average, protected all impact foot.
1 BG of javelin men 8 stands, average unprotected javelins
1 BG of cavalry, 6 stands average protected, light spear swords men

A bad list, but literally everything I own to just barely make it to 650 pts.

I see a great need for some MF to deal with the Auxila in the woods, and of course more LF & Cav.

Turns out we probably used the Roman archer LF in the 3rd rank, later 2nd rank wrong. They should still lose dice for being LF vs HF, we allowed them 2 dice each in melee that combined with superior made the Legions too deadly.

[Niceas]

Well, I know I did that for the shooting, they only threw one die per two bases there shooting.

The table for the melee phase dice says 'other troops' get 1 dice per stand in the 1st two ranks. So how's that supposed to work for close combat then?

[hammy]

Well, I know I did that for the shooting, they only threw one die per two bases there shooting.

The table for the melee phase dice says 'other troops' get 1 dice per stand in the 1st two ranks. So how's that supposed to work for close combat then?

Light foot in the third rank give extra dice against mounted in the impact phase. They lose one dice per two because they are light foot so in effect you get 1 dice for one light foot and 2 dice for three.

If you have light foot in the second rank of a mixed formation they fight with the POAs of the front rank but you still lose one dice for every 2 you have so one light foot in the second rank will not cost you combat power but two bases of light foot would result in you losing a dice.

Remember that losses are taken from the front rank and replaced from behind so if you lose bases they must be the heavies, you can fill the gap with another heavy from the rear of the formation and the gap left by that heavy can be filled by a light foot base.

[hazelbark]

Germans
3 FC, 2 TC's

Really?!?!?!

pretty sure that is illegal. CiC plus 3 is the limit.

[Niceas]

Germans
3 FC, 2 TC's

Really?!?!?!

pretty sure that is illegal. CiC plus 3 is the limit.

That was a typo. It was 1 FC, 2 TC's.

[Niceas]

Light foot in the third rank give extra dice against mounted in the impact phase. They lose one dice per two because they are light foot so in effect you get 1 dice for one light foot and 2 dice for three.

If you have light foot in the second rank of a mixed formation they fight with the POAs of the front rank but you still lose one dice for every 2 you have so one light foot in the second rank will not cost you combat power but two bases of light foot would result in you losing a dice.

Remember that losses are taken from the front rank and replaced from behind so if you lose bases they must be the heavies, you can fill the gap with another heavy from the rear of the formation and the gap left by that heavy can be filled by a light foot base.

Only vs. mounted? If the support shooters are light foot? Is that correct? The table on page 92 is not as clear as it could be on that point.

[nikgaukroger]

Only vs. mounted? If the support shooters are light foot? Is that correct? The table on page 92 is not as clear as it could be on that point.

It is correct. Quite clear IMO if you read the words in the rules as well as looking at the table.

[domblas]

it looks useless against foot
but in fact it gives more bases in ur BG and thus enhance ur : 25 % threshold autobreaks and HPB thresholds
so it is usefull for legionaries in many situations

[nikgaukroger]

Indeed it is a cheap way to bulk out what otherwaise may be expensive formations - also helps in resisting 1 hit per 2/3 bases as well as 25% and autobreak

[Unclemeat]

In the example given: A German Warband charges into a Roman BG of Legionaires with a BG of LF Archers in the back rank. I don't think the archers contribute anything at all. They only combat shoot vs Mounted, and they cannot fight as a second rank since on page 92 it states that "rear ranks of an eligable troop type...can fight if they belong to the same battle group as the front rank or overlap they are behind." Since the LF and the Legionaires are from different BG they cannot fight in the rear ranks or contribute bodies to the HP ratio. IMHO

[nikgaukroger]

Correct for a separate BG of LF archers, however, some formations including some legionarii can have LF included in the BG along with the HF/MF. In these cases they add extra bases for the 25% etc. and can contribute a dice or two against mounted.

[Unclemeat]

OK, now that I re-read the Order of Battle I see the integrated archers. Will that apply in the Bronze Age too for chariot runners and other similar troops? What aboutUnits of mixed HF/MF or MF/MF like Indian 2H Swordsmen and archers? English bill and bow?

[rbodleyscott]

OK, now that I re-read the Order of Battle I see the integrated archers. Will that apply in the Bronze Age too for chariot runners and other similar troops? What aboutUnits of mixed HF/MF or MF/MF like Indian 2H Swordsmen and archers? English bill and bow?

Some lists have mixed battle groups, some don't. Mostly we have only included them when historical formations cannot be replicated without mixed BGs.