Tiger Tank Question

[ruggs215]

When I try to upgrade from Tiger 1 to Tiger 2 I have to pay full price for the Tiger 2. Aren't they the same family so I would only have to pay the difference? It really screws you up to buy Tiger 1 tanks and is a waste of prestige. Or is this just a bug on the ipad?

[ThvN]

That is not a bug, the Tiger I and II are separate families. It's probably designed that way to prevent players from getting the best equipment very cheaply. There are other examples, like the Ta 152 fighter plane, which doesn't share the same family as the FW 190D.

[Molve]

However, since the game doesn't show which family a unit belongs to, it's impossible not to think it is a bug - the units are, after all, named Tiger I and Tiger II, strongly implying they're part of the same family...

The other example is not misleading in this way. I know that you were thinking of how the Ta 152 was made by Focke-Wulf, just as the FW 190D. But the way the game presents these units, the former unit looks as if belonging to some "Ta" family while the latter belongs to a "FW" family.

[captainjack]

Churchill Crocodile costs the full amount even when upgrading from a Churchill.

Personally I think that they are worth it, and I suspect that game balance would be rather skewed if the upgrade path was easier, but it's a bit of a surprise when you first encounter it.

[Egge]

That is not that unrealistic. Although the names "Tiger" and "Tiger Ausf. B" suggest that those tanks were very similar, Tiger I and Tiger II were, in fact, completely different designs, much like Panzer III and Panzer IV were different.

[Molve]

The issue here really isn't about game balance, or historical veracity.

It's the simple little fact that since the game doesn't tell you the unit family, you're left to make guesses.

[ThvN]

Very true. That is also the reason I made a large image last year, which displays the unit families and rough introduction dates for the German equipment. You can use it to plan ahead upgrades for your units. It also shows which units are switchable, which is something else that is not evident before purchase.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/gauu59

[carlisimo]

You could take a Panzer IV Ausf. D into the shop and come out with a Panzer IV Ausf. H after a bit of work. But the Tiger II is a completely different design from the Tiger I - look at the two side by side and you'd have no idea they shared the same name. You can't even reuse the hull.

[the_iron_duke]

Indeed, the Tiger II is in some respects closer in design to a Panther. One early intelligence report referred to it as a 'Pantiger': "a new 67-ton German heavy tank — referred to variously as Pantiger and Tiger II — has been employed against the Allies this summer in France. Actually a redesigned Tiger (Pz. Kpfw. VI), it mounts the 8.8-cm Kw. K. 43 gun. On the basis of a preliminary report, the general appearance of the new tank is that of a scaled-up Pz. Kpfw. V (Panther) on the wide Tiger tracks" (http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt_ ... index.html).

[Molve]

You could take a Panzer IV Ausf. D into the shop and come out with a Panzer IV Ausf. H after a bit of work. But the Tiger II is a completely different design from the Tiger I - look at the two side by side and you'd have no idea they shared the same name. You can't even reuse the hull.

Carlisimo, remember this is a game, and a casual one at that ("beer and pretzels wargaming").

You're assuming knowledge and historical facts regarding tanks, something lots of players simply will not have. A good game will come prepackaged with all information needed, which Panzer Corps arguably fails to do here.

I fully understand why a player might think the two Tigers are part of the same family, "why otherwise give them the same name?" (The fact these names weren't made up by Slitherine, and aren't "newbie friendly", is beside the point in this regard)

[ruggs215]

Thanks for the responses. A simple tree in the game manual or library would have been nice. And while I do have a pretty good knowledge of the war I never really read much about the individual ground units. I was more into studying naval warfare in WW2. Never realized that the Tiger 1 and 2 were completely different. Knowing that, I actually understand and respect the decision of Slitherine for keeping it that way in the game.

[Naxor]

Thanks for the responses. A simple tree in the game manual or library would have been nice. And while I do have a pretty good knowledge of the war I never really read much about the individual ground units. I was more into studying naval warfare in WW2. Never realized that the Tiger 1 and 2 were completely different.

I always have encyclopedia of tanks and airplanes near when i play panzer corps. Very useful when making purchases and understanding different stat values of units.

[jaggy]

Very true. That is also the reason I made a large image last year, which displays the unit families and rough introduction dates for the German equipment. You can use it to plan ahead upgrades for your units. It also shows which units are switchable, which is something else that is not evident before purchase.

Thanks ThvN! I've downloaded and printed it on A3. Very comprehensive. I was trying to figure out what units were switchable with the 1.21 patch and this chart helped a lot. Now I can plan my upgrade path for the Grand Campaign. Cheers!

[BiteNibbleChomp]

The Tiger 2 isn't really a Tiger in anything after its name. Americans at the Battle of the Bulge mistook it for a Tiger 1 though.

It helps to think of it this way:
Pz1-4 are 1-4 respectively.
Panther is a PzV
Tiger 1 is a VI
Tiger 2 is a VII
Maus is a VIII

The game made a mistake calling the Maus a PzVII

- BNC

[carlisimo]

It helps to think of it this way:
Pz1-4 are 1-4 respectively.
Panther is a PzV
Tiger 1 is a VI
Tiger 2 is a VII
Maus is a VIII

The game made a mistake calling the Maus a PzVII

That would've made sense, but the Tiger II was actually called "Pz. VI Ausf. B". By designation it was just an update of the original Tiger, even though in real life it was all-new.

There were plans to make a Panzer VII Löwe (Lion) in between the Tiger and Maus.

[sn0wball]

The OKW would have saved later generations a big deal of confusion if they had stuck with the Lion designation ... but I suppose they wanted to built upon the Tigers reputation.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I think they were too busy ruining the world to think about the generations of the future (now!)

- BNC

[2010sjones2010]

Try playing all the DLC's without any tanks of any type. Great fun!! You soon learn the benefits and strengths of other units

[captainjack]

I have managed to go through to near the end of 43 East without buying any tanks, instead using only what I capture or get as SE units. However I do upgrade captured ones when they become hopelessly outclassed - usually just after 1942. However, I have done some of the early scenarios in 39 completely tank-free, relying mainly on infantry and arty with some AT (including at least one 88) and a few planes.

Not using any tanks sounds quite a challenge and I might try it next time round to see how far I get!

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Try playing all the DLC's without any tanks of any type. Great fun!! You soon learn the benefits and strengths of other units

That sounds incredibly hard - in the WWI campaign, you begin stuggling when enemy tanks make their first appearance. The only way to kill those death boxes is to pound them with artillery multiple times and then an infantry strike (artillery is almost as powerful as tanks, with everything else about 1/6th as strong)

- BNC