Dash to the Wire - Afrika Korps

[ceandersen]

Dear PzC Players, I have trouble understanding the messages and goals of the "Dash to the Wire" scenario.
Goals are only 3 "Hexes" near Tobruk? 2 Cities (Duda and El Belhammed) and 1 airport (Sidi Rezegh)?
So why is it mentioned in the briefing scene that the main objective is to defend the Bardia and Sollum cities?

Also the messages that appear during the scenario are incomprehensible to me.
Can anyone help me decipher all this?

[Razz1]

The mission objectives change on the second turn.
Player must go to assembly area marked B on map.

Then once assembled, a player must find the supply dumps and destroy them. Time is important.
The decisive victory still is the same. player must capture 3 primary objectives AND eliminate all Allied units.

[dinosaurjr10]

I just finished this scenario (for the second time), and basically you need to hold the three victory hexes south of Tobruk while destroying three supply depots located west of the "Frontier Wire" hexes (this is the terrain name for the hex that displays just below the unit action buttons on the right of the screen). A message will appear instructing you to gather four units in the marked area (see attached) before sending them to destroy the depots.

I agree the messaging is confusing, and the assembly area is not as clearly marked as it could be, but hopefully this helps!

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I don't think that destroying the supply dumps is counted as a task towards a DV. They are probably just to get yourself some extra cash!

- BNC

[Molve]

I see why the confusion - the message giving you the mission does say:

Assemble at least four units for the task at the marked assembly area. There is no time to waste! Mission objectives have changed!

Note the emphasis.
And yes, for clarity: the "marked assembly area" are the zone southeast of Gabr Saleh marked with little circled "A"s. I agree that they don't stand out particularly well, especially against the beige backdrop of the desert. Perhaps in the next patch they could be made to glow (at least on the strategic map)...

No actual victory conditions are changed, either by this message or any other script. However, since the DV objectives (just like Razz says) include "eliminate all Allied units" you could say the message has a point - after all, the supply dumps are allied units too! And they do not exist on the map unless you get the mission.

However, if you were to object "but on another map if I'm told to kill all enemy units that automatically includes any reinforcements or newly purchased troops, I would hardly call it "mission objectives have changed" each time a new conscript or green tank enters the map!" I would have a hard time refuting that.

The secret sauce to this scenario is that the DV condition to kill "all units" really only checks units named "supply dump"! (Yes, already from the start) So when you get the Dash to the Wire special mission, its prize is Decisive Victory itself!

At this time I think it's time to remind ourselves that Panzer Corps is a game, and a game is an artistic endeavor. And part of any good artistic endeavor is a dramatic license to create tension, in this case by not giving the complete picture.


Molve

PS. Now the astute reader might ask "but what if I don't accept the mission? If no supply dumps appear if I don't race towards zone "A", won't that mean I will get my DV simply by taking and holding the three victory hexes (El Duda, Belhammed, Sidi Rezegh)?"

The short answer is "the designer thought of that"

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.
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The spoilery answer is "by not accepting the mission a trio of special hangers also called "Supply Dump" will be placed in the extreme south-east of the map, making it that much more difficult to reach them and destroy them in time".

That actually sounds like a challenge Has anyone gotten a Decisive Victory on this map after denying the mission? Has anyone even found the "Supply Dump" hangers during actual play (as opposed to the editor), bearing in mind that they do not appear if you take the mission?

To complete the spoiler of the map: Should anyone fancy go hanger-hunting (completely unrelated to the bonus hangers in the south-western desert) they will appear at 45, 33; 47, 33 and 49, 33. Quite interesting to see this design choice, really, given that it would be easy for the scenario designer to simply make it impossible to attain a DV without the mission. I'd definitely call them an easter egg!

[ceandersen]

The mission objectives change on the second turn.
Player must go to assembly area marked B on map.

Then once assembled, a player must find the supply dumps and destroy them. Time is important.
The decisive victory still is the same. player must capture 3 primary objectives AND eliminate all Allied units.

Hi Razz, I understand better now, but still do not know the purpose of grouping the 4 units in "A". I went straight look for the deposit and destroy them, and seems to have worked. Since I reached the DV. So what is the need to assemble the units to "A"?

[ceandersen]

I just finished this scenario (for the second time), and basically you need to hold the three victory hexes south of Tobruk while destroying three supply depots located west of the "Frontier Wire" hexes (this is the terrain name for the hex that displays just below the unit action buttons on the right of the screen). A message will appear instructing you to gather four units in the marked area (see attached) before sending them to destroy the depots.

I agree the messaging is confusing, and the assembly area is not as clearly marked as it could be, but hopefully this helps!

Hi Dino, comforts me to know that other people also thought it confusing, so do not feel so stupid.
His image with annotations was very decisive. Thank you!
But still did not understand the function of "time", because after a few turns comes another message saying that the time is up. You know why? For me the time was up and I kept searching and destroying deposit and got a DV.
Another thing, I saw the images of their transport trucks English are different from mine, was any customization you've done?

[ceandersen]

I don't think that destroying the supply dumps is counted as a task towards a DV. They are probably just to get yourself some extra cash!

- BNC

Hi BNC,

I destroyed 3 deposit, but no received bonus in prestige. So do not think that's it. Thank you!

[Molve]

Hi Razz, I understand better now, but still do not know the purpose of grouping the 4 units in "A". I went straight look for the deposit and destroy them, and seems to have worked. Since I reached the DV. So what is the need to assemble the units to "A"?

But still did not understand the function of "time", because after a few turns comes another message saying that the time is up. You know why? For me the time was up and I kept searching and destroying deposit and got a DV.

Spoiler:
If you take the mission, three supply dump units called "supply dump" will be placed on the map roughly along the wire structure running from Sidi Omar to Fort Maddalena. This is a "reward" since this is much closer and easier to find than the hanger units also called "supply dump" you found at the extreme south-east edge of the map. You do not actually need to take the mission, just like you have already found out. It's just that you're supposed to easily miss those supply dump hangars if you don't take the mission, and thus risk losing out on a DV. That's all.
(See my earlier post)

Another thing, I saw the images of their transport trucks English are different from mine, was any customization you've done?

The image was changed in a recent patch.

[Molve]

I don't think that destroying the supply dumps is counted as a task towards a DV. They are probably just to get yourself some extra cash!

- BNC

Hi BNC,

I destroyed 3 deposit, but no received bonus in prestige. So do not think that's it. Thank you!

Correct, there is no special reward for precisely when you accomplish the mission. The reward for destroying three units called "supply dump" is the DV itself.

(If you don't, you'll only get a MV. On the other hand, getting a MV in this scenario is exceedingly easy, since you only need to take/hold the three victory hexes close to your starting position. In other words, you need to move much less for the MV in this map than on most others. On the other hand, this scenario offers great rewards for exploration, so don't settle for the easy MV! )

[ceandersen]

At this time I think it's time to remind ourselves that Panzer Corps is a game, and a game is an artistic endeavor. And part of any good artistic endeavor is a dramatic license to create tension, in this case by not giving the complete picture.

Molve,

I loved your review, especially the highlighted above.
Afrika Korps is different and PZC and their explanations helped me antender it. While in PZC was all more orthodox, on the other hand, in AK, we have to be more creative and fight as guerrillas.

Thanks for the explanations.

[ceandersen]

Hi Razz, I understand better now, but still do not know the purpose of grouping the 4 units in "A". I went straight look for the deposit and destroy them, and seems to have worked. Since I reached the DV. So what is the need to assemble the units to "A"?

But still did not understand the function of "time", because after a few turns comes another message saying that the time is up. You know why? For me the time was up and I kept searching and destroying deposit and got a DV.

Spoiler:
If you take the mission, three supply dump units called "supply dump" will be placed on the map roughly along the wire structure running from Sidi Omar to Fort Maddalena. This is a "reward" since this is much closer and easier to find than the hanger units also called "supply dump" you found at the extreme south-east edge of the map. You do not actually need to take the mission, just like you have already found out. It's just that you're supposed to easily miss those supply dump hangars if you don't take the mission, and thus risk losing out on a DV. That's all.
(See my earlier post)

Another thing, I saw the images of their transport trucks English are different from mine, was any customization you've done?

The image was changed in a recent patch.

Dear Molve,

I know I sound stupid, but you have a little more patience with me ...
See: I did not put the units into "A" and still managed to DV. What is the function of placing the units in "A"?

[ceandersen]

Gentlemens,
Even with all the explanations I still do not understand the function of "time" in this scenario. Why at one point appear the message: "Out of time! Your mission to destroy the British suply dumps has expired!." ?

[Molve]

Spelled out as simply as I can

SPOILER ALERT

The point of this scenario is an exciting mission. You start the mission by assembling four units in area "A". The goal of the mission is to destroy three supply dumps (added to the map when the mission starts). The reward is a possible Decisive Victory.

Now then for the real story:

You don't absolutely need to take the mission. You can get a DV anyway. This is so because if you don't accept the mission, three hard-to-find hangars (each called "supply dump") are added to the map instead of the much more obvious supply dumps.

Thus the only benefit of the mission is to make it easier to get a DV, since you only have to look where you're told: along the wire. But if you have a habit of always uncovering the entire map anyway, it is entirely possible you think it easy enough to find even the hangers tucked away in one end of the map.

In that case there is no real benefit at all for accepting the mission, and there is no drawback whatsoever for failing to start it in time.

Gentlemens,
Even with all the explanations I still do not understand the function of "time" in this scenario. Why at one point appear the message: "Out of time! Your mission to destroy the British suply dumps has expired!." ?

I suppose the message is there to create drama, and interest you in replaying the scenario in the way the designer wants you to.

Dear Molve,

I know I sound stupid, but you have a little more patience with me ...
See: I did not put the units into "A" and still managed to DV. What is the function of placing the units in "A"?

In short: making it easier to gain the DV.

By accepting the mission, supply dumps are placed along the wire, which supposedly makes them easier to find and destroy.

In truth however, the main purpose is to create tension and drama. To make you, the player, feel excitement because you have a deadline to meet! To add the challenge of defeating the British even though four or more of your units is racing away from where they are most needed!

But remember, nobody told you about those hidden hangers. I didn't even know they existed before this thread was started - I didn't know there was an alternate way of getting the DV even when you failed the mission. Look at it this way: if the designer didn't "go soft" on us, failing the mission would have meant a MV.

Just because you can get a DV even without the mission doesn't mean the mission is meaningless or without value. Quite the contrary!

Hope this clears things up for you

[Horst]

Gentlemens,
Even with all the explanations I still do not understand the function of "time" in this scenario. Why at one point appear the message: "Out of time! Your mission to destroy the British suply dumps has expired!." ?

It helps understanding the missions if you read directly the scenario scripts by the scenario editor. Edit->Scenario Params...->Scripts. Here are the script triggers explained:

On turn 1, a "fuse" tag is added by a script in the background. This helps to check for valid script conditions.
On turn 2, you receive the message to assemble at least 4 units on the marked "A" hexes.
Now, you need to move at least 4 units onto the marked "A" hexes between turn 2 and 5 (including turn 5).
If you have assembled at least 1 and less than 4 units on the "A" hexes, you receive the message that you should wait for four units to assemble before going into the action.
If you still haven't gathered at least 4 units there between turn 4 and 5 and the "fuse" tag still exists, you get a warning.
You receive instantly the message, that you should dash to the wire and destroy the supply depots when you have assembled at least 4 units on the "A" hexes. The "fuse" tag is removed here.
If you don't have at least 4 units there on turn 6, you get the message out of time. This "fuse" tag is not removed here.

According to the decisive victory condition, you can still accomplish that even without placing enough units on the "A" hexes. My guess is that the scripter has either forgotten to add the "fuse" condition there or, what the previous poster already mentioned, that he simply wanted to create some tension. Well, such also produce rather confusion as we know now.

[Molve]

According to the decisive victory condition, you can still accomplish that even without placing enough units on the "A" hexes. My guess is that the scripter has either forgotten to add the "fuse" condition there or, what the previous poster already mentioned, that he simply wanted to create some tension. Well, such also produce rather confusion as we know now.

Horst, did you examine the Hangers in the bottom right corner of the map? They're placed on the map on turn 7 if and only if "fuse" still exists.

While it is possible they're added in order to prevent the player from getting a DV when missing the mission (since the supply dumps aren't placed, which is exactly the same as them being destroyed) I choose not to believe that. Why? Well, because it would not only be a clumsy way of doing things, but because it - as this very thread proves - is an ineffective one.

In my mind it is much more likely that the designer knows full well how to make the DV impossible (such as checking the fuse tag as you suggest), but that he or she intentionally wanted to provide a safety valve, a second way out to get the DV even without the mission! (Of course, for this explanation to be truly plausible, I concede it would be better if these supply dump hangers were placed randomly all over the map, instead of always appearing in the same spot... After all, once you know they're there, it isn't much more difficult to take them out than it is to take out the dumps by the wire. It's not that they're guarded by any significant extra forces, or that the extra distance is significant)

My point is: I simply suspect the designer thought this measure would be met with gratitude and relief instead of confusion and irritation...!

Perhaps a clarifying message should have been added, perhaps saying on turn 8 or thereabouts

Wait! Even after failing to get the mission in time, there is still a chance to win this battle decisively! The British might have moved away their supply dumps before we got to them, but there are still supplies in desert hangars. Unfortunately we do not know where - you're on your own. But good hunting!

This would explain to the player that a DV is still attainable, that running out of time isn't a permanent disaster, and that you simply got a more difficult job of taking out the British supplies.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Sounds like the scenario is just pure evil to me .

Even my Verdun scenario isn't that confusing (though I think you will get badly mauled in it).

- BNC

[Molve]

Sounds like the scenario is just pure evil to me

I understand you're joking, but it's important to note that what it all boils down to is:

It's a scenario about a mission, like so many others. Unlike perhaps the others, the designer didn't make this mission mandatory, and then didn't tell the player this.

This apparently caused more confusion than appreciation, at least for ceandersen

That's really all there's to it. There really is no pure evil to this scenario, just a bit of non-communication

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Obviously the enigma code wasn't decrypted properly - that's why you have a terrible briefing!

- BNC

[dinosaurjr10]

Hi Dino, comforts me to know that other people also thought it confusing, so do not feel so stupid.
His image with annotations was very decisive. Thank you!
But still did not understand the function of "time", because after a few turns comes another message saying that the time is up. You know why? For me the time was up and I kept searching and destroying deposit and got a DV.
Another thing, I saw the images of their transport trucks English are different from mine, was any customization you've done?

I too am not sure about "time," but I think others here have commented on it (I only skimmed the additional posts). As for the trucks, I am playing an uncustomized game, version 1.22.