Rear Support in Disordering Terrain

[NickHarbud]

Hi chaps,

I expect this got answered a long time ago, but I am too lazy to go search for it....

Situation 1
At Nancy, Charles the Bold is slightly more switched on and when the Swiss Gewalthut emerges from the woods he successfully intercepts it before it can fully deploy. He now finds himself fighting 4 ranks of pikes, the final one of which is still in the Forest and thus Severely Disordered.

Do the pikes count the POA for being in >=3 ranks?
Do the pikes count the POA for 4 ranks?

Situation 2
Having trashed Charles, the Swiss set about conquering Europe. Supremely confident in their ability to take on all types in any terrain they charge some facing MF whose front edge is 1mm inside a Forest, thus Severely Disordering the front element of pikes.

Do the pikes count the POA for being in >=3 ranks?
Do the pikes count the POA for 4 ranks?

Situation 3
The ever victorious Swiss complete their conquest of Europe by subduing Ireland. Here their pikes come across some MF Kern defending the Plashed Edges of a Forest.

Are any of the pikes Severely Disordered?
If the pikes are not Severely Disordered, would the Kern be better off forgetting about the plashing and simply standing in the Forest in order to make the pikes Serverely Disordered?

[hammy]

Hi chaps,

I expect this got answered a long time ago, but I am too lazy to go search for it....

Situation 1
At Nancy, Charles the Bold is slightly more switched on and when the Swiss Gewalthut emerges from the woods he successfully intercepts it before it can fully deploy. He now finds himself fighting 4 ranks of pikes, the final one of which is still in the Forest and thus Severely Disordered.

Do the pikes count the POA for being in >=3 ranks?
Do the pikes count the POA for 4 ranks?

In FOG dissorder is on a base by base not BG by BG basis. As the front 3 ranks of pike are not severley dissordered then they get the POA for the first three ranks but as they are not all in the open they don't get the POA for the fourth.

Situation 2
Having trashed Charles, the Swiss set about conquering Europe. Supremely confident in their ability to take on all types in any terrain they charge some facing MF whose front edge is 1mm inside a Forest, thus Severely Disordering the front element of pikes.

Do the pikes count the POA for being in >=3 ranks?
Do the pikes count the POA for 4 ranks?

In this case the pike get no POAs

Situation 3
The ever victorious Swiss complete their conquest of Europe by subduing Ireland. Here their pikes come across some MF Kern defending the Plashed Edges of a Forest.

Are any of the pikes Severely Disordered?
If the pikes are not Severely Disordered, would the Kern be better off forgetting about the plashing and simply standing in the Forest in order to make the pikes Serverely Disordered?

Now that is a good one...... I am not sure and will have to read the rules.

[rbodleyscott]

Situation 3
The ever victorious Swiss complete their conquest of Europe by subduing Ireland. Here their pikes come across some MF Kern defending the Plashed Edges of a Forest.

Are any of the pikes Severely Disordered?
If the pikes are not Severely Disordered, would the Kern be better off forgetting about the plashing and simply standing in the Forest in order to make the pikes Serverely Disordered?

They would be better putting their plashing slighlty inside the wood edge. IIRC the list says "Plashing within woods" not "Plashed wood edges".

Unless part of a pike base enters the wood it won't be severely disordered.

[NickHarbud]

They would be better putting their plashing slighlty inside the wood edge. IIRC the list says "Plashing within woods" not "Plashed wood edges".

Wow! Can they do that? I must try it at once!

[shall]

If phasing is good enoug for us to call a FF it makes life difficult for pikes. It gives a + POA for the defenders. In addition it does not count as open terrain if attacking it so the 4th round of Pikes is cancelled. So the pikes will be at evens even if its on the edge of the wood. Dcent chance of stopping even the best pikes on the wood edge with cheap MF.

If placed inside then it gets horrible. The pikes will be at O POAs as severaly disordered, and on 1/2 dice. The defenders on full dice and + for defendg a FF. Definitely goodbye pikemen. 2 dice at 5s bs 4 dice at 4s. Ugly. AND -2 for Sev Disordered on the CT test. Could hit a record - at impact if they lose 3-1 say. Testing on -4. Even superiors will find that hard to pass. If you can defend it with some medium foot IF then it would be a -5!!!

Best stop before Irelan me thinks!!!

Si

[rbodleyscott]

They would be better putting their plashing slighlty inside the wood edge. IIRC the list says "Plashing within woods" not "Plashed wood edges".

Wow! Can they do that? I must try it at once!

Actually now I have checked the Medieval Irish list does say "Plashed wood edges". How an umpire would rules on this remains to be seen.

[shall]

I think RBS is teasing you a bit here .... I can't see anyone ruling plashed wood edges being anywhere but on the edge...

Mind you we only have plantations and forests .....

So to me those FF go around the outsides of either of these. I'd still keepthose pikes away!

Si

[bahdahbum]

Just to be 100% sure I read correctly, to have the + from the fourth rank , all the 4 ranks of pikes need to be in he open . if the first rank is in a rough terrain, it will still have the + for the 3 ranks, but not the + for the fourth rank . Correct ?

NB : I have had someinteresting games with a late medieval german army during the tournament at Vitry in february but have no good pictures for a AAR and as it was a tournament I had no time totake some notes

he one thing being, an all average army has sometimes a hard time against superior troops .

[shall]

If any of the pike file is not in the open it would lose the + for that file

If they are attacking FF they don't get it as it says in the definition of open terrain that attacking FFs is excluded (rather badly hidden in the glossary I'm afraid which with hindsight would have been better in FF section)

Cheers

Si

[rbodleyscott]

Just to be 100% sure I read correctly, to have the + from the fourth rank , all the 4 ranks of pikes need to be in he open . if the first rank is in a rough terrain, it will still have the + for the 3 ranks, but not the + for the fourth rank . Correct ?

Yes. But if the 1st rank was in Difficult Terrain it would be Severely Disordered and then would not get any Pike POAs at all.

Moral: Don't go into terrain with pikes.

Conversely, halberdiers (and legionaries) are far less badly affected by terrain.

[bahdahbum]

it all depends on terrain . i had games with a very open center or flank, very good for the phalanx, othermore difficult !