strategic bombers

[dks]

I know I read a thread about my question somewhere but can't find it.

using strategic bombers more rather than tactical bombers playing col v1.21.

my question is: does the AI lose prestige just like the human player when I carpet bomb a victory city? I know the stats say allied commander loses such and such amount of prestige.....but.....does this amount come from a finite amount of prestige the AI has?

I want to steal as much prestige from the AI as possible per turn....bankrupt it if you will.

if one strategic strike can deplete prestige, then many strikes per turn is even better.

if this is the case....holding a victory hex city at siege and carpet bombing them each turn will change my strategy and use of strategic bombers. starve the enemy with many strategic bombers.

many times I have aux units that are almost useless but would be great for siege duty.

I have two now and thinking of four.

[Kamerer]

I think it does. I have noticed less "spamming" when I strat-bomb heavily.

I can't find enough slots to make using "many" bombers effective consistently, but in some scenarios is seems a very valid option.

[ThvN]

I don't think the AI has different rules while strat bombing, so it should reduce prestige as shown. The effect also depends on the scenario prestige settings, with most scenarios you'd be hard pressed to bring down the AI's prestige level to notice much difference.

Please note that strat bombing hexes to reduce prestige only works on cities and airfields, if it is a victory hex in the middle of nowhere (desert, etc.), it will have no effect, although it appears as a valid target. It took me a while to notice this, unfortunately .

[dks]

less spamming:

I noticed this while in the Poland scns of the DLC's. this is what got me going on the idea of a logistical strat-bomb strategy.

what I'm thinking hard on is a less expensive way to take Stalingrad. strategic bombers seem to be making things much easier prestige cost wise for me taking fortified areas even with the many 3 range AAA's of Ivan.

I stopped at Stalingrad and went back to deploy of Minsk 41 where I started to purchase more artillery last time.

this time I used my strats to carpet bomb vitory hex cities in different locations on the same turn when ever I have the chance. seems to slow Ivan down. at 350+ points per strat-bomber, I believe I was taking 16 prestige at a whack with an enemy unit in the city. multiply that by 4 and it's got to hurt. an empty victory city took much more prestige per hit.

I'm also thinking....if....the AI is subject to the same rules I am as prestige is concerned....then....that means I'm going to take a different tactic on planes also. bleed the AI by not killing off it's planes when they are reduced to 1 or 2 points strength. that's the largest cost to replenish I believe.

clear the ground of enemy ground units for the blitz but starve Ivan from spamming his rear area is my idea.

I know it would call for a larger Luftwaffe than what may be desirable. the only time weather is real lousy is usually a defensive scenario anyways. so no loss to the blitz there.

prestige prestige and less prestige in v1.21 it seems to me. hate pounding my way thru a city and Stalingrad is a BIG city.

that's what I love about PzC. like PG 1, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[shawkhan]

Once you neutralize a victory hex, I believe that restricts the AI from placing spammed units around the hex. Doesn't matter how much prestige the AI has if it cannot place units.

[dks]

victory hex: I'm strategic bombing victory (city) hex. no neutralizing there.

just finished Leningrad 41. ouch got tooooooo close to Leningrad proper. ewww dem heavy capital ships....owwww

anyway, was strat-bombing the heck out of Krasnogvardeysk(14,18) in tandom strikes. city was empty and had my recon next to it. allied prestige loss 32 first strike and 16 second strike. not bad.

had to pull my Do 217E's away due to them monser monser heavy heavy KV's. took a healthy bite out of em and slowed them puppies down real quick with my strat-bombers at 375 points and a big +2 attack hero. makes those KV's easy pickins for my panzers

never went the Leningrad route before. first time and the strats for me were better than the Stukas. hold up better being attacked and sure do make entrenchments much easier to take.

ok....made up my mind. gonna go all the way back to a 39 grand campaign start. trying to get (4) strats right away. gonna get hard in France 40' DLC. the canals and all. just gonna have to rely on luck to get some needed SE panzers in the beginning. might even go the old nasty Wassingy route. I think that's the allied surprise counter offensive one. talk about spamming guys woke my rear end up quick it did

means a large Luftwaffe but I think the gains should be worth it. slowing down the AI spamming and saving me prestige.

can leave the strats in reserve for those snow defense scns in 41'.

here we go.

[shawkhan]

Neutralizing the hex means it turns white. Once your strats gain some experience, it should happen more often.
IMO, the whole campaign is new with the improved AI and tweaked scenarios Just finished Arras scenario, and it was challenging to say the least. Playing the game somewhat historically as I do, my 4 tanks had their hands full taking on Matilda IIs. My strategic bombers saved the day, depleting them, then allowing them to be surrounded and picked apart.

[dks]

howdy shawkhan,

just getting started for a 39 DLC redo and strats.

I like the v1.21. I was playing very aggressive when I got to Stalingrad and was struggling to keep my core at full elite over strength. was running out of prestige. that's a first for me. having to concern myself about losses and the cost to replenish. no more just going for it. works for me....yeaaa. looking forward to see what happens this time around.

this time I decided to try using the Do 17Z to start with. lousy on fuel but I want to see how quickly it adds experience and see if the one time upgrade to the Do 217E will save me much needed prestige later. going to take all of 39' and 40' to get there though. have to wait until 41' to upgrade.

looks like airfields will take on more importance than before.

looking forward to Norway and see how my lowly Do 17Z's do against the British capital ships. need fighter escort bad toooooooooo. somebody has to give a little I'm afraid.

I like the historical play also when it comes to equipment. problem comes when Ivan spams more KV's then the USA made tanks though

gonna be fun and again why I like this game. just wait when I go for the more demanding levels of play....ohhhh man

[dks]

Do 17Z's: Poznan

purchased (2) Do 17's 1st turn. very happy with out come. the 15th achieved 216 points. the 16th achieved 225 points. the only units the Poles fielded (spammed) were two at's.

so far so good.

if possible will purchase at least one Do 17Z per turn. can disband my 3.7 Pak 36 at Danzig coming up.

[dks]

I'm turning into Luftwaffe Corps

just took Lillehammer on last turn 18. did it with (4) Wehrmacht Infantry, (1) SdKfz 232 8Rad, (5) Sturmpanzer I on the ground

Luftwaffe: (4) Bf 109E, (1) Ju 87B and my trusty (4) Do 17Z's.

one more snow turn and I wouldn't have made it. the D0 17Z's and the Ju 87B saved the day

I don't think I'll get away with a Luftwaffe Corps playing at the harder settings....but....I'll enjoy my Do 17Z's while I can at standard col.

I have 5844 prestige after artillery upgrades and purchases of planes. not bad.

[Jazzwind]

So - and mind you I'm new to the game - the idea here is, to use Strat Bombers to hit Victory Cities and Airfields, to reduce his Prestige. Ok - I have been doing that as the OP had suggested. My problem is in finding the Victory Hexes, to begin with. I get that they are going to be either cities or airfields, however - and this is likely due to my using this 42 inch flat screen TV as my monitor - I cannot identify which cities ARE Victory cities. I usually do the whole "Bomb and press "L"" thing, to see if Mr. AI lost prestige. If so, cool, if not, I fly around continuing the process.

Better way to more quickly ID these Victory Cities / Airfields?

[ThvN]

Hello Jazzwind, Victory Hexes (VH) have a shiny gold edge around the flag, so I think they will be visible on your system. For example, in the first scenario (Poland) Cracow, Lodz and Warsaw are VH, you can try and see if you spot the golden border on their flags. If you are unsure, let me know, I can upload a screenshot to show you the difference.

A little hint, if you want to bomb VH to reduce prestige, it will only work on cities and airfields, some VH are normal terrain pieces like hills, and bombing those has no effect on prestige levels.

[Jazzwind]

Hey big guy - thank you for such a quick response. I wondered what the little glowie things were for. I appreciate your help, very much.

Does it pay off to prestige bomb VH? Not knowing at all what amounts of prestige the AI has, I could just be wasting time and slots. Your opinion?

[robman]

Does it pay off to prestige bomb VH? Not knowing at all what amounts of prestige the AI has, I could just be wasting time and slots. Your opinion?

I rarely use strats for "prestige bombing." I prefer to use them for (a) attacking ships and transports, (b) sapping fuel and ammo of big nasty ground units, (c) softening up entrenched units, and (d) once the strats have some experience, tackling AA units. Even if none of these tasks are doable, I tend to avoid distant VHs for fear of fighters or AA fire.

[Jazzwind]

I just ran through each of the DLCs in the editor to see what the prestige levels were for each of the years. Seems that the AI gaining 50 prestige per turn holds for 39 through about 43. 44 and 45 get tougher. There are one-offs, like Stalingrad, of course. No way I'm gonna bomb out 100 prestige a turn, there. Still, it would help stave off the spamming, but. As the good Robman points out, likely at this scenario there's much better things to be doing with the bombers.

[captainjack]

Of all the uses of strategic bombers, prestige reduction is the only one I don't use as a deliberate strategy. However, it's a nice bonus when attacking a unit in a victory hex. Usually I use 1 or 2, but have used up to three from my core (plus whatever auxiliary ones are available). But I haven't yet worked out how to use them effectively in the West DLCs due to tight prestige and limited unit slots.