Query ref POAs from Overlaps

sgtsteiner · Post by **sgtsteiner** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:53 pm

Hi

First official (ie non-beta) game today Punic Romans vs Carthaginians

One query arose which we were unable to resolve from rules

When a unit is in an overlapping posistion in melee phase how are POAs applied ?
Ie we had two oppossing units of Numidian LH in contact and I moved a unit of Scutarii into an overlap on enemy.
One file of Scutarii get a +Poa as Swordsmen BUT do the enemy LH count this as a -Poa since they have no bases actually fighting the Scutarii ?

Photo to show situation (with Scutarii on lower right)

andy63 · Post by **andy63** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:20 pm

NO the LH fight the Lh Your Scutarii just get the extra dice for fighting as an overlap.

Andy.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:26 pm

andy63 wrote:NO the LH fight the Lh Your Scutarii just get the extra dice for fighting as an overlap.

Andy.

The Scutarii do get to fight at + though.

Actually shouldn't that be ++ for swordsman and protected?

andy63 · Post by **andy63** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:31 pm

Yes you probably right Hammy,i was just making the point that his scutarii get the extra dice.

Andy.

sgtsteiner · Post by **sgtsteiner** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:34 pm

Hi Andy

Are you sure that the Scutarii dont count POA ?

On pg 86 (Overlaps) it says "Each overlapping file fights with the same net POAs and same number of ranks as if it was in front edge contact with the overlapped enemy base."

I took this to mean the Foot counted the +POA for Swordsmen vs mounted ?
And hence the query as to wether the LH counted this as a net -POA against themselves despite having even POA vs the oppossing LH bases actually in contact ?

Cheers

sgtsteiner · Post by **sgtsteiner** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:40 pm

Hi Hammy

A ++ thats interesting I had missed the extra + for better armour ?

Question still stands do the overlapped LH then suffer -- desp[ite not being in 'actual' contact with overlappers ?

Cheers
Gary

andy63 · Post by **andy63** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:41 pm

HI sgtsteiner, I never said you dont count POA,i was just making a point that overlaps get extra dice,in the case what was mention the LH fight the LH and the Scutarii get the extra dice for being an overlap and what POA the scutarii get they get.

Andy.

andy63 · Post by **andy63** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:43 pm

Question still stands do the overlapped LH then suffer -- desp[ite not being in 'actual' contact with overlappers ?

NO.

Andy

sgtsteiner · Post by **sgtsteiner** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:47 pm

Hi Andy

Ta for replies

sagji · Post by **sagji** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:39 pm

Yes AND no

Consider a different case.
Some cavalry protected lance swordsmen are fighting MF unprotected def spear - the is an even fight.
The HF bring up a BG of cavalry armoured bow as an overlap.

The overlap is evens - one side gets + for better armour the other for swordsmen.
The base that is overlapped still fights the MF at evens - the fact that it is giving the other cavalry a + for better armour doesn't alter the fact that it gets a + itself for better armour against the MF.

shall · Post by **shall** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:20 am

Overlaps use the same POAs they would if they were fighting the opposing BG forntally. The difference is that they don't get any dice back against them.

So LH vs Legionaries as an overlap will often be -- if UP no Sw or - if UP Sw (cancels the Sk Sw).

A nice point to remember is that - and -- are both needing 5s so in practice any disdavantaged overlap gets 2 dice (or 1 if facing reduction for skirmishers) needing 5s, as the addition.

So the LH in question add 1 dice needing a 5 - so not much help, but a little. 1in 3 chance of swinging an even combat. Not enough to swing 4 dice uneven combat of 4s vs 5s on average - Exp(2) vs Exp(1.33) adding (0.33) for the LH. All desinged to be quite carefully balanced.

Si

sgtsteiner · Post by **sgtsteiner** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:12 pm

Hi Simon

Just to make this doubly clear for me

'Overlaps use the same POAs they would if they were fighting the opposing BG forntally. The difference is that they don't get any dice back against them. '

So an BG that is in an Overlap gets POAs as if fighting frontally and do not suffer an dice against themselves.

The Overlapped BG fights its frontal opponnents normally using only the applicable POAs for this 'frontal' fight and do not suffer any possible 'ill-effects' of POAs from any Overlapping BGs

Cheers
Gary

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:16 pm

sgtsteiner wrote:Hi Simon

Just to make this doubly clear for me

'Overlaps use the same POAs they would if they were fighting the opposing BG forntally. The difference is that they don't get any dice back against them. '

So an BG that is in an Overlap gets POAs as if fighting frontally and do not suffer an dice against themselves.

The Overlapped BG fights its frontal opponnents normally using only the applicable POAs for this 'frontal' fight and do not suffer any possible 'ill-effects' of POAs from any Overlapping BGs

Cheers
Gary

Yes

shall · Post by **shall** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:00 pm

Yes yes

So a straighforward fight to the front with a bolted on dice or two on the side - easy

Si

sgtsteiner · Post by **sgtsteiner** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:57 pm

Hi Simon/Hammy

Ta for the clarification

Gary