Game #3 and 2 Questions

[BrianC]

Hi Guys,

We had another playtest tonight and I just have 2 questions.

1. The following pic shows this situation. I had my Italian MF declaring a charge on a LH BG and I indicated the direction of charge so that I would hit the Spanish cavalry BG behind the LH. So the LH evade and wheel away. As it turns out they are then hit in the rear by my advancing MF. We resolve the impact combat and in the maneuver phase I am supposed to conform to the Spanish cavalry but since the LH is in the way I had to keep my bases as they were and fight that way until such time as I can conform in the next maneuver phase. So I fought both BG's. Was that played correct? Could I have conformed to the cavalry BG and broken contact with the LH?

The LH evading is the one on the right with 2 markers next to it indicating Fragmented.



2 Skirmishers. A. We decided to get aggressive with our LF and engage them in melee in front of our battle lines. After a couple of turns of no effects we tried to find somewhere in the rules where we could break off LF from melee but could find nothing. Did we miss something in the rules? Can we break off light foot fighting light foot? It got really annoying as the HF lines were waiting to impact each other. I know that shock troops can interpenetrate LF but was not sure what to do due to the melee. I would have thought our HF could have interpenetrated and the enemy LF would have run away. Instead they held up both sides.

B. Is it fair to say that skirmishers do almost no damage to armoured BG’s? The Carthaginian skirmish troops were pelting the Romans but to no avail, it seemed they had to be very lucky to cause anything worthwhile. To be honest I am not sure what the value is of LF in an open field battle. After experiencing the above in section A I would prefer to keep them out of the line rather than hold up my side. I think the Roman LF did more damage to the Roman side by holding them up.

Any thoughts or clarification would be much appreciated.

As an aside, we did play to pretty well a decision in about 2 to 2.5 hours. A far cry from our last game : ). We have another game scheduled on Saturday and I look forward to an even smoother game then as we are referencing the rule book less and less and the charts are becoming easier in that they are becoming ingrained in our memories which speeds things up.

Brian

[shall]

Hi Guys,

We had another playtest tonight and I just have 2 questions.

1. The following pic shows this situation. I had my Italian MF declaring a charge on a LH BG and I indicated the direction of charge so that I would hit the Spanish cavalry BG behind the LH. So the LH evade and wheel away. As it turns out they are then hit in the rear by my advancing MF. We resolve the impact combat and in the maneuver phase I am supposed to conform to the Spanish cavalry but since the LH is in the way I had to keep my bases as they were and fight that way until such time as I can conform in the next maneuver phase. So I fought both BG's. Was that played correct? Could I have conformed to the cavalry BG and broken contact with the LH?

You conform if you can do so. If not you stay as you are and continue to fight that way with overaps defined as they would be if you had been able to conform. So you got it spot on.

In the enxt round the opponents would conform to you to tidy things up

2 Skirmishers. A. We decided to get aggressive with our LF and engage them in melee in front of our battle lines. After a couple of turns of no effects we tried to find somewhere in the rules where we could break off LF from melee but could find nothing. Did we miss something in the rules? Can we break off light foot fighting light foot? It got really annoying as the HF lines were waiting to impact each other. I know that shock troops can interpenetrate LF but was not sure what to do due to the melee. I would have thought our HF could have interpenetrated and the enemy LF would have run away. Instead they held up both sides.

Yes once in they are in. We do not believe skirmishers could break of - its called a rout. So if you get a long stale mate it can get in the way.

B. Is it fair to say that skirmishers do almost no damage to armoured BG’s? The Carthaginian skirmish troops were pelting the Romans but to no avail, it seemed they had to be very lucky to cause anything worthwhile. To be honest I am not sure what the value is of LF in an open field battle. After experiencing the above in section A I would prefer to keep them out of the line rather than hold up my side. I think the Roman LF did more damage to the Roman side by holding them up.

skirmishers harass. Vs Armoured they will harass less well. Their primary role is often to clear out enemy skirmishers. Tgheir harrassing can also slow down and advance and be used to pull shock troops out of battle lines to create disruption. But yes you are correct they are supposed to struggle against armoured foot. You need to gang up on a wing BG to have much effect on DISRs.

[nikgaukroger]

My expereinces agree with Si - which is good as he's the expert

LF can be very useful indeed but you have to get the hang of using them. If screening the front of your troops they can perform a useful function at that but are unlikely to cause much missile damage to the opposition. However, out on the flanks they can often gang up on the end of the enemy line and have a real effect - this week I've had a case where 2 BGs of slingers broke a 6 base BG of knights through shooting, that 's about 3x their points value

[shall]

this week I've had a case where 2 BGs of slingers broke a 6 base BG of knights through shooting, that 's about 3x their points value

An admirable exercise in pebbledashing.....

I had a Roman Cavlary BG that tried to mvoe acroos 16 bases of Ancient british slingers and came a cropper.

Unless you can isolate something don't expet miracles from your skirmishers - they were not the main battle winners in historical battles and FOG is set up to reflect that (unless you ar Huns of course which work rather well in FOG if you use them historically).

Si

[mikekh]

If the leading element on the left hand side of the foot BG had contacted the second rank cavalry element on its right hand edge how would the impact have played? Would there have been two bases up for combat or just the one? (ie the one on the unflocked base)

(We had something similr last night and I assumed that in the above circumstances only one element - the unflocked one - is eligible for dice in the impact phase)

Thanks

Mike

[shall]

all bases contacted potentially fight. So it would have been 4 dice vs 4dice there.

Si

[BrianC]

Mike, the left most MF did contact the rear right cavalry base and in the front I had 2 bases, the unflocked one and the one to its right in contact with an enemy base so we had a 2 vs 2 fight using 4 dice as Si indicated. I should have taken a higher angle shot.

Si, regarding the enemy cavalry conforming to my MF in its next phase. If the LH was still there for some reason would he conform to my stepped forward formation? Would he do that by pivoting to his right slightly? I ask that because of the formation of my MF and the fact that we were already in melee. If they were in a proper formation I can see the cavalry conforming. It was just a kind of wierd situation and a good one for getting the conform rule down.

Brian

PS: I will have to work on my flocking soon .

[BrianC]

On a similar note. Originally the LH evaded, my MF hit them in the rear in the Impact Phase. Now because they were already evading we did not turn them to face the MF. Was that correct?

On another flank I hit a cavalry in the flank and we turned the BG to face the attack after downgrading the cohesion by one and then fought the battle.

Brian

[BrianC]

this week I've had a case where 2 BGs of slingers broke a 6 base BG of knights through shooting, that 's about 3x their points value

An admirable exercise in pebbledashing.....

I had a Roman Cavlary BG that tried to mvoe acroos 16 bases of Ancient british slingers and came a cropper.

Unless you can isolate something don't expet miracles from your skirmishers - they were not the main battle winners in historical battles and FOG is set up to reflect that (unless you ar Huns of course which work rather well in FOG if you use them historically).

Si

I am thinking for my next game to not even have them in the front line but rather off to the side to see if they can get into mischief. I should be able to clear his LF out by charging through them with my HF. Why waste time rolling for combat that will not have any affect on the game other than making the game last longer. I know I am missing how to handle skirmishers but hopefully that will come with more practice.

Brian

[shall]

First you do trun the contacted element to face and they fight. So 1 dice needing 5s vs 2 duce needing 3s so very bad. Escpecially given they are DISRed by the rear contact.

On conforming all troops in combat conform if they can in your movement phase. So in this case you can't but in their movement phase both the Cv and the LH conform by shortest moves to be in frontal contact.

Si

[BrianC]

Ok thanks Si,

Didn't know that the LH still turned as they evaded. I doubt it would have had much effect but still its good to know the proper procedure for future games.

So from what you said, the cavalry and LH would conform to the MF ( who is still stepped forward) by lining up to face the MF then in the MF maneuver phase the MF would conform. Should everyone still be there by then

Thanks

Brian

[shall]

Yes evading makes no difference once you are caught, it is just a normal rear charge

And yes they would conform if still there - which I wouldn't want to be on. Survival will be their main problem.

Si

[mikekh]

all bases contacted potentially fight. So it would have been 4 dice vs 4dice there.

Si

Yes, of course it is, my brain must have been fuddled that night!
If the cavalry were in fact medium foot bowmen, which of them would fire in the impact phase?

Cheers

Mike

[shall]

None

Only bases behind one in contact can do so adn only if not fighting - page 84

Si